Basic Manners

[the.fee.fairy]

I used to have that tattoo too! I'm too polite to not speak to someone who speaks to me. Then i found the key to being the nutter...Job done! No more maniacs coming and sitting next to me on an empty bus!

I found out about peoples life stories - there was the bloke who wasn't gay, but liked having sex with men, he also liked wearig ladies underwear and confided in me that lat saturday, he had been swinging round a scaffold pole dressed in nothing but bra and knickers...

There was the one who had just got out of prison for assault...it wasn't his fault, naturally, he had been provoked into injuring a bloke in a bar when he was drunk...

There was the woman who wanted to tell me all about her deep love for God, and how he'd found her one day whilst she was out of it on heroin, and she'd never taken drugs since...apart from the odd hit of crack cocaine...but that didn't count, God didn't talk to her about crack...

Oh...how i miss the delights of public transport in Brixton!

[anarchistinslippers]

I overheard a customer complain to the management about a colleague who served her on the till. Apparently she refused to talk to her, packed her bag without asking if she had/wanted one, took her bank card without a word, etc. All this behaviour from such a retail veteran. Shocking, no? The manager said "I'll take this with a pinch of salt, as it's you, but I've had a complaint against you" When asked to defend herself, the colleague explained that the customer was on her mobile and didn't want to interupt her phone call!

[Sky]

I can really identify with some of the things being said about manners, and sometimes I despair - but just a word in defence of London...
I've lived in East London for almost 30 years, after being brought up in small towns in Gloucestershire. I do recognise the picture of people being unaware of others and wrapped up in their own worlds here, but I would also say that I have been constantly surprised by the friendliness and kindness of people. I know many of my neighbours, the postman and local shopkeepers. I often see people giving up seats for others on buses and trains and when I was pregnant, this happened for me many times. My community is very mixed, and some cultures and faiths have enduring traditions of respect which influence their behaviour in public. And I've had unexpected help getting heavy bags off the bus from some very cool-looking youths! I've come to the conclusion that most people are basically good and well-meaning.
Sometimes, I think people's withdrawal through ipods etc is a way of trying to protect themselves from the crowds and stresses of public transport and living in such close proximity to others. And sometimes its fear of violence.
Sometimes, of course, here as elsewhere, people are just plain rude!!
Yvette

Yvette says it all.

[Sally Jane]

So many of the scenarios described above seem all too familiar, sadly. The general decline in manners seems to reflect the instant gratification-based culture we seem to live in - ' I want it, I want it NOW, it's my right , nobody's gonna stop me from having it, and please and thank you is out of date.'
This kind of behaviour seems to be reinforced and presented as normal by the characters in soaps etc.
The problem certainly seems to be worse in big towns and cities, but less bad in areas that are physically isolated from the spead of this horrible disease.
I lived in Luton for 28 years. People tend to pass through Luton, often not staying long enough to build valuable and nourishing relationships with their neighbours. It is also close enough to London for the city's problems to be just an hour away. Isolation, fear of crime, low self-esteem etc.
On the other hand, you have to travel round the mountains to reach West Cumbria. Nobody gets here by accident, or on the way to anywhere else. Generally speaking people are friendlier, more interested in other people, and putting a value on the most mundane relationships.That took some getting used to! But they call a spade a spade, and don't suffer fools gladly!
It is a closer, tighter community. People value their reputations. If you are, say, a plasterer, and you do a bad job or are rude to your customers, word gets around and impacts on your future employment.
People on Freecycle are polite and appreciative!
Of course people are not perfect here, but fortunately they seem not to have been so influenced by whatever is at the root of the decline in manners. Yet...

[mrsflibble]

Dear fee.fairy,

It's the other way round for me. I must have a tattoo on my forehead visible only to nutters, it probably says, "Come and sit next to this poor sod, he's too polite NOT to listen!"

The number of religious fanatics, conspiracy theorists, winos and the merely insane who want to unload their idiotic opinions on me should be entered in the Guinness Book of Criminal Records!

Love and Peace
Jim

I had that tatoo too until I began making myself the nutter. job done, if I appear more mental that everyone else, I get nobody next to me telling me about the huge turd their cat did on their lawn or whathaveyou.

[the.fee.fairy]

MrsF...i think we might have met the same person there...i do recall someone telling me about their cat's excretions...

[Merry]

When we moved to a different house years ago the next door neighbour stopped me and said, 'I don`t know what`s wrong with your husband. When he passes me at the bus stop he just glares without speaking. It`s quite scary.'
After I worked out the orientation of the bus stop I was able to reassure her that it wasn`t bad manners, it was that he`s blind in that eye.
Made us wonder how many other people he`s unintentionally offended.

[Brij]

I am seen as too polite by the French... They are as keen on please and thank you (at least, in the village we live in) as anyone else, greeting your neighbours and anyone else you recognise, etc, but when it comes to asking for things in shops, I always say please and thank you to excess in their eyes!

See, I was taught that if someone gives you something or does something for you, you must thank them, so the average conversation goes...

Me : I'd like a baguette please
Shopkeeper : That'll be 80c
Me (giving euro) : Thank you
Shopkeeper : Thank you
Me (receiving change) : Thank you
Shopkeeper : Have a nice day, goodbye
Me : Thank you, goodbye

So that is 3 thank yous just for a baguette!! Most of the French don't seem to say please in shops when they are buying something. It is just not considered rude... They take an 'I'll take a baguette' approach, and only thank the shopkeeper once before leaving the shop.

But I would rather be excessively polite than risk being rude!!

[Millymollymandy]

Oh just say voila when you hand over the dosh Brij! I think I'm too polite as well but I'm just translating really what I'd say in English - I understand that if you say 'je voudrais' (I would like) then you don't really need a please as well as it is implied, (rather than saying I want). But in English we'd say please anyway and I want is just rude unless you are with close friends or family, and then it depends on the context really.

The worst thing in France is when you ask them if they'd like something i.e. a coffee and the answer is 'merci' (thank you). Now what would you think if you'd asked that in English? Does this mean yes or no? I always, always have to check what they mean and I've even been told by someone French that mostly it means no but sometimes it can mean yes, depending on the person or where they come from!!!

[Sally Jane]

Something I hear occasionally which sounds quite rude to me is when someone in a shop or cafe says 'Can I get' such-and-such instead of 'May I have'...
Would I be right in thinking it may be an Americanism, and if so is it regarded as polite/acceptable over there?
I always get the urge to tell them that the nice lady/gentleman will get whatever it is for them, if they ask nicely...
Am I just hopelessly out of date as usual?

[Millymollymandy]

Gosh, what exactly is the difference between 'can' and 'may'? I understand the 'can I get', that doesn't sound very nice or at all correct, does it? Yet I remember my mum saying something like (when I said 'can I have') - 'you can, but you MAY not'. I never did quite puzzle that one out!

By the way, think about how many times we use the word 'get'. Then try to learn another language where it doesn't exist and you realise how sloppy our English is!

[Green Aura]

Can = capable
May = allowed

That clarify it, MMM?

[Millymollymandy]

Yes, that makes it all sound so simple that I feel like a right dork now! (I think this thread has morphed into the 'is this English' thread!).