goats - how hard are they to look after... and fence in?

red · Post: # 43600Post **red** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:24 pm

I really love goats milk cheese... wouldn't mind keeping goats.. but really.. how hard is it? how often do they escape?

Camile · Post: # 43616Post **Camile** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:47 am

Hi Red,

It's easy enough keeping goat .. the only real thing to mind is their feet .. to make sure they are not overgrown ..

As for fencing ! eh eh .. it took me about 3 months to fence mine in ... I don't want to use electric fence and I wanted him to have access to the hedges .. because they are grazer and will "Trim" your hedge in no time ...

But he now found another way to get out since his horns grew ... he lifts the wire mesh and goes underneath .. but it's only to go in a small field on the side that no one uses .. and that needed a good bit of clearing .. and it's on the good way .. and the owner don't care ..

But I really made a point of making a very strong fencing on the road sign to make sure he doesn't escape their ...

And you would be better off putting a nice shelter in the field for them ...

Good luck ! they are class !
Camile

Boots · Post: # 43929Post **Boots** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:43 pm

Small quantities of any livestock are generally harder to fence than herds. Quite a few of my herd have arrived after folks have pulled their hair out trying to keep them in alone or in pairs.

For a small yard, and one or two goats, I would suggest against wire - unless it is heavy duty weld mesh. You'd be much better enclosing in wood. Recycled crates are a good alternative if you can get your hands on them. Palings can be put on every second space to save a bit too.

If you have to use wire, run a single strand top and bottom of some strong square mesh and be prepared to restrain often. You may also want to peg the bottom, because they only need to get out once, and they consider the new territory theirs.

If you plan on building a herd, buy a minimum of 3 and choose goats of varying ages. If you watch the selection herd carefully you will notice several who lead. They will be older. You want one good lead goat. If your lead goat is a menace, then your whole herd will be too!

If you just want house milk/cheese, then you may just want one. I have always tethered our milkers, mainly because the breed (toggenberg) is troublesome. They will climb, jump and no doubt fly if they could - and being milkers, their feed demands are much greater, so they can get into stuff they are not supposed to, or hurt themselves. Tethering is a pain in the butt, and needs pretty much constant attention, but if you have a big breed it beats having them trash your fences, gardens and whatever else they fancy.

I have lost count of the number of people who have bought goats without any attention to fencing or available feed, only to lose their temper and decide the goat is a 'problem animal'. If you decide to get them, do both yourself and the goat a favour and fence well before you bring them home, and work out just how much room they'll have after you work out where you don't want them. They are great animals, curious, entertaining and useful, and make great pets and producers.

Let us know if you get one or some. Am always happy to talk goats.

red · Post: # 43936Post **red** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:25 pm

how does tethering work out? Do the animals get enough freedom?

Boots · Post: # 43945Post **Boots** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:57 am

I'm not a fan of long term tethering, and it frustrates me no end that this breed so often needs it. I am raising up a doe as part of the herd now for milking, and she has been tethered with the herd to try and encourage unity. Unfortunately, while togs stick together, they are not very multi-cultural...

She began the naughty antics quite young, and I was determined she would not be like her mum, and would hang with the boars and be 'a good girl'. Nah, she is a ratbag too. Independent, free-spirited and adventurous. As far as she's concerned she is her own herd!

I have tried just about every tethering set up there is, I think. Spent ages setting up sliding clasp runs, which I still use in the dam inlet. Also have a heap of rotating ring over peg types scattered throughout the paddocks to concentrate clearing in certain areas. The truth is, tethers are a hassle - they will regularly tangle themselves and scoop up anything that's within their reach end enevitably ensure you end up with a wild spider web configuration that now involves a goat, chair, branch and whatever else happens to blow into or be left in their browsing circle.

They need to be checked very often, as I have found my goats in some compromising positions over the years! You just shake your head after a bit, and think HOW DO THEY DO IT??? A tethered goat will also ALWAYS knock a water bucket over straight after you put it down, so I drag tyres around to offer some protection for buckets or bowls and secure some sort of water source for at least a while. When you finally find a good hazard-free site - it is eaten down in a couple of arvos!

If you are grazing down an unfenced hill, you can tether them to old tyres, which lets them move on but slows them down a bit and tends to keep them feeding where you want them, but no matter how you tether, you really do still have to watch them.

Our main paddocks are only fenced with strand wires, so when I take them out there I tether my lead goats and the rest just cruise about. I also have a dog who works to maintan the herd. She takes her position very seriously and gets very annoyed if they seperate. The toggenberg comes off the tether when they browse, but she still wanders off. Tis ok if you have room for it.

There is definately no freedom in a tether - BUT - from one freedom lover to another - IF you have a garden and want an environment that feeds them AND still grows, you are going to have to restrict their freedom somehow to rotate thoughtfully.

AFter buying all sorts of variations, some of which are still in use, I now make up tethers using plaited baling twine. They last heaps longer, are strong and don't get lost in the grass so easily. I also use short tethers and move them more often, rather than long ones that need to be untangled all the time.

CrazyParrot · Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:48 pm

we know people with goats, it doesnt seem too hard. They need a 4ft fence to keep them in, and a bit of concrete to stand on to get out of the wet grass (helps prevent footrot), but apart from that its similar to keeping sheep (although I'm no expert in sheep keeping- got any advice for looking after pet lambs anyone?). they usually dont need shearing or dipping and dont get flystrike so easily, but need to be fed a small amount of goat mix every day as well as hay.

red · Post: # 54106Post **red** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 9:26 pm

4 foot fence seems optimistic to me.... everything I read says 'your goat will get out and eat your vegetable patch at some point' !!

CrazyParrot · Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:07 pm

4ft seems to work with my friends goats - although she has to be careful not to leave any objects near the boundries - hay racks, buckets, bales ect. - as they will just hop up and over. I suppose it depends on the breed as well, although as i say, i'm no real expert!

ina · Post: # 54514Post **ina** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:19 pm

Boots wrote: They need to be checked very often, as I have found my goats in some compromising positions over the years! You just shake your head after a bit, and think HOW DO THEY DO IT??? A tethered goat will also ALWAYS knock a water bucket over straight after you put it down, so I drag tyres around to offer some protection for buckets or bowls and secure some sort of water source for at least a while. When you finally find a good hazard-free site - it is eaten down in a couple of arvos!

That had me laughing out loud - it sounds so familiar! Good idea with the tyres, though - thanks for that, I think I'll give it a try!

I have mine in electric fences - theoretically. At the moment I'm tethering them as well; they are cashmere, and their coat is so thick just now (desperately needs combing!), that they simply don't feel the shock unless they touch the wire with their noses.

Magpie · Post: # 54607Post **Magpie** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:39 pm

How 'bout if your fences are currently keeping sheep in? Would that do it? And would the goats associate themselves with sheep - ie if the sheep are with them, and not trying to escape, would that discourage escaping in the goats?

ina · Post: # 54617Post **ina** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:20 pm

Possibly - if they've grown up together, for example... My friend has merinos as well as cashmere goats, and keeps them in the same field for most of the year. The fences are much stronger than they would have to be for sheep alone. I've known the goats going walkabout while the sheep staid where they were meant to be. They don't usually mix within the field, either; there are always two distinctly separate flocks. Unless, as I mentioned, they've grown up together: She had two orphan kids one year which had been raised with the orphan lambs, and they seemed to think they were lambs... But they learned goat ways when they grew older.

Magpie · Post: # 54845Post **Magpie** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:04 pm

Hmm, so not to be counted on then. It really is the only thing that puts me off goats, they would be very handy on our property, as we have mountains of gorse!

farmerdrea · Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:39 pm

I think it's a mistake to lump all one breed as "escape artists" etc. We have 6 breeds of goats on our place, Toggenburgs, Saanens, Anglo-Nubians, Arapawa Island goats, Rawhiti English goats, and Boers. ONE goat out of 72 is an escape artiste, and she thinks she's people. Some of our boundary fencing is totally not goat-proof; they could walk through it if they wanted to. But they are content, well-fed and the paddocks where they belong are home to them, so they don't get the urge to wander, not even the 14 adult bucks. The fences are sheep netting or 7-wire high tension on the boundaries, with a little tighter to keep the bucks separate from the does (900mm high, with hot outriggers at the top and sides, inside and out).

I think it all comes down to temperament of the indivdual goat and some breeds do have temperamental "tendencies", but the are many exceptions to the rules. All my Toggs are incredibly placid and friendly (9 of them), except for one girl, who's as pushy as can be, to the point of being rather annoying. But she's a good mum and milker, so she stays.

I would probably start off with a tried and true milker, which is just what we did when we first started with goats. Got 2 mature does in milk, nice placid older girls. They were quite patient with us, and never gave us a moment of trouble.

I say go for it, but do be sure your fencing is adequate.

Cheers
Andrea
NZ

Magpie · Post: # 54901Post **Magpie** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:56 pm

Not really after them for their milk, though! More for their gorse-destroying abilities. We are hoping to get a couple of Dexter cows for their milk, although I guess goats might be easier (and cheaper!!) to start with.

So, if you're not so much wanting thier milk, what sort of goat would you recommend?

farmerdrea · Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:01 pm

Red was after them for milk, but as you're after them for clearing, which they will do to some extent, but they really prefer the young growth on broom and gorse. They can be used to control gorse, but I don't think they would clear it. But, their constant munching of it would probably, over time, and depending on how many animals you used, would really knock the gorse back.

I would go for Boers - do you have them in the UK? They are usually a placid breed, and being on the heavy side (meat breed), they are not prone to jumping.

Cheers
Andrea
NZ