Homework

[Stonehead]

The Big Lad, now in P2, was given the usual pedagogic photocopied worksheets for his homework last week and I thought people might be interested in the letter we sent to the school:


[quote]F will not be doing set homework other than meaningful projects that draw on the resources available to him at home or reading school books as part of his normal home reading behaviour.
If homework is set to have primary children practice skills that teachers think they need help with, then they should be practicing these skills at school where they have the professional, trained support needed and where all children have equal access, regardless of their parents' educational attainment, socio-economic class or willingness to help.
If homework is set in order to show teachers that the student can take a concept and produce a body of work that demonstrates they understand the concept, then it is a thinly disguised attempt to extend the school day without providing the teachers to take these extra hours.
In addition, while older and more mature secondary students may have developed the intellectual capacity to figure things out for themselves by reading the text, calling a friend for help or explaining their difficulty to parents (who may or may not understand the concepts themselves), primary students can only turn to their families. That is not fair to families and it is not fair to children who should be spending precious evening time with each other.
As for the argument that primary students need to do homework to keep up with the rest of world, this is completely specious. Giving children more repetitive and boring worksheets to work on at home is not going to boost their skills in comparison with children in other countries.
Children in different countries are taught with different objects in mind. While there are some in Scotland who believe that the aim should increasingly be to get the “correctâ€Â

[funkypixie]

Fantastic!

My son starts yr1 tomorrow and I live in horror of the stuff he is likely to be sent home. We do things with our children that mean so much more then the pap sent out by some teachers.

Have you had any response yet? I'd be interested to hear what the school have to say about your letter. I can imagine the response it would get from the head at G's school - it would not be positive. Having said that, if I think that any of the work he is being sent home is stupid, repetitive and inappropriate I'd be proud to follow your lead.

Anna x

[Shirley]

Well said Stoney - I too will be very interested to hear the reply.

My two older children both had these pathetic sheets of paper - half the time they didn't even get them marked!!! WHAT is the point of that....

I could rant on ....

[baldowrie]

My kids have so had no homework apart from reading from their new school..and long may it continue. I have no need to read with them as they both pick up books and read them on their own. I don't need to sit and listen to them any more, they find that demeaning. The school want me to sign their reading books to say I have listened to them..I have refused.

[red]

when I first started home educating my son, I went in search of resources that would help and found in WH Smiths books of these homework sheets for photocopying. I recognised a number of them from when my son was at school. Don't teachers teach anymore?

Many of the worksheets were daft - either maths that involved guessing to get the answer, or far too personal a question such as 'count how much pocket money you have in your money box and write the answer here' Often we would spend along time helping him throught he homework for it not to get marked. The work was never aimed at his actual ability, and he would often get very stressed over it.

Stonehead - have you considered home ed as an option?

[Stonehead]

Stonehead - have you considered home ed as an option?

Yes, but the Big Lad wanted to go to school and still does. While there are quite a few downsides, we are aware of them and fight our corner with some vigour.

It's also been an advantage for him in that he's rapidly learned that while you might have to do as you're told, you're still free to think what you will!

[den_the_cat]

We do things with our children that mean so much more then the pap sent out by some teachers.

well yes, but a lot of parents don't, and it may also be that a kid can cope perfectly well without bringing reading or sums home but that the combination of a good teacher and some individual attention from parents at home can help them really flourish? I used to love my word tin when I was 5.

I can never believe when I'm shopping how few kids are reading shopping lists and counting things into trolly's and adding up how many apples they need to buy that week, I think some parents probably need the kids homework to force them to get involved at an age where there's still some benefit to be had?

It's also been an advantage for him in that he's rapidly learned that while you might have to do as you're told, you're still free to think what you will!

amen to that!

[Stonehead]

Referring back to the transport project the Big Lad is working on, he's put together a selection of photos and is now working on the words. It's all based on "Transport My Family Has Used".

His project includes:

His great aunt Mary being winched aboard a RN Wessex rescue helicopter. (She was in the Royal Navy.)

A 1959 Holden taxi - because a distant cousin was a taxi driver at that time (and murdered by a passenger to boot!).

A Lancaster bomber because two cousins flew on them in WW2 - both were shot down, one parachuted to safety and was a POW, the other died.

A photo of his great, great uncle Robert Clement and another of the hospital ship Manunda. Robert was a POW of the Japanese and came home on the Manunda.

A photo of his great grandfather James Dalgleish and another of a K2 ambulance like the one he drove in WW2.

A photo of his great great grandfather Karl Olaf Carlsson, a Swedish ship's carpenter, and another of the barque he shipped aboard.

Pictures of convict ships, both exterior and below decks, because his 5G grandfather James Cantwell was an Irish rebel taken in arms against the British and transported to Australia.

A photo of his great, great grandfather Duncan Johnstone with his horse and another of the stagecoach he used to ride guard on. Duncan was also a mounted postman.

A photo of his great grandfather Bruce Johnstone and the horse he used to muster cattle and sheep.

Plus an assortment of photos of the various cars we've had, and he's still looking up more.


He loves doing it, he's learning a lot and I'm enjoying doing it with him.

[baldowrie]

den the cat in answer to a lot of parents don't, are we to be dumbed down like the entire educational proceddure? I think a lot of parents do help their children learn, maybe not in the conventional why. And I have home educated sucessfully for a shot period of time.

I also object to the personal questions like how much pocket money do you get..none of you business is the correct answer in my book

Take today kids hand in their note saying they will not be going on the 'school' holiday costing £224 each. Daughter gets questioned as to why, as the whole class is going, and says mum hasn't got the money for it and it imediately asked why hasn't she? Daughter says that's none of your business and instantly gets punished. She is now under instruction that any questions about how much money we have or have not she is to answer that is none of yor business and if he is told that's 5 mins off your golden time tell them that will 10 mins my mum will want with you!

Stoney the teachers won't know how to handle that so I doubt F will get any recognition for his troubles..sorry L but you know the score any way

[Stonehead]

Stoney the teachers won't know how to handle that so I doubt F will get any recognition for his troubles..sorry L but you know the score any way

I know! Most of the kids are just cutting photos of cars, buses and planes out of magazines. The Big Lad, on the other hand, had a think about it and decided he wanted to do something with "all the dead old people and how they went places".

[den_the_cat]

not dumbed down no, and I know that's a problem (believe me, it really bugs me - because I took all the sciences I was forced to take languages with a mixed group and they didn't teach us what we needed for O-level french so my only CSE is a result of not being taught enough to be allowed to take the o-level)

But we're talking about, what, 5-7 year olds? And we don't want them to have to do worksheets which make them learn mindless facts by rote? So if I was trying to amuse a six year old I could easily say "ok - count all the money in your piggy bank, and then think of three things you can buy with that much money and say which one you'd like to buy and why" - to me that wouldn't be dumbing down and it would involve lots of key skills plus imagination.

But if I think about it the other way its also intrusive re money, its discriminatory as some kids may not be able to research or check the prioe of things depending on their hoime circumstances, and its unfair as it may require family interaction. Stoneheads boys project would be intrusive if it was set by the school.

In the same way teachers are damned if they set homework (all Stoneheads points) and damned if they don't (many parents do want some type of homework to be set and like to sit down with their children to help but perhaps don't have the skills to come up with projects themselves)

OK - I admit to some prejudice here - the BF is a teacher, although of teens and young adults, but I am amazed by the things he has to cope with and he probably sees 18 year olds with a lower level of literacy than your kids, in trying to make sure all children get to minimum standards things have probably gone too far the other way, but unless all parents are as good at motivating their kids as you are the schools have a really huge problem making sure everyone gets the individual care they need.

[Stonehead]

Stoneheads boys project would be intrusive if it was set by the school.

The general concept was set by the school - he interpreted it according to what interests him.

In the same way teachers are damned if they set homework (all Stoneheads points) and damned if they don't (many parents do want some type of homework to be set and like to sit down with their children to help but perhaps don't have the skills to come up with projects themselves)

Unfortunately, a lot of people believe homework is essential - even if the evidience is to the contrary. And a lot of schools give homework because it's what parents expect.

OK - I admit to some prejudice here - the BF is a teacher

Snap! In my case, it's the OH. She doesn't have much time for the pedagogery, petty fascism and hoop jumping that passes for teaching in many schools. She's also done a lot of research into learning and is just finishing an MEd.

I, on the other hand, managed to scrape through Year 12 (thanks to good science teachers) and have proceeded to educate myself since then.

unless all parents are as good at motivating their kids as you are the schools have a really huge problem making sure everyone gets the individual care they need.

Precisely my point. You can't expect children to do homework to the same standard when their parents have widely varying motivations; educational, socio-economic and cultural backgrounds; and relationships with their children.

As they've found in France, the kids that get the best marks for set homework tend to be from middle and upper class, affluent, well-educated backgrounds who share the same cultural and educational values as their teachers, while also sharing the same first language.

The cynical view would be that homework is just another way of keeping the wrong sort of people in their place!

Anyway, time for dinner.

[baldowrie]

I can honestly say that doing homework didn't teach me anything as I spent half the time trying to get someone to help me do it as the teachers had not taught or explained what it was all about..

But what I did get from it was stress.

Some of my kids homework in primary one has been colouring..no purpose, just colouring. they were expected to have colouring pencils and when they used felt tips they got in trouble!

Stoney I wish L taught my 2, they would learn twice as much and second J would have his intelligence stretched instead of his problems being a 'problem'

[Sarahcook]

I've read this thread with interest as I *am* a teacher of 7,8 and 9 year olds. I have a set system of homework as provided by the Senior Management Team to give to my children. However, I give homework when I feel it is appropriate. I do require my children to learn their tables as I do think this needs repirition as well as investigation in the classroom. I do require parents to read with their children - not just watch them pick up a book - but to actually read with the child, discuss the book, discuss the child's reaction to the book. I do accept answers of 'I didn't like it' as long as there is a because. I accept answers of 'I didn't care about this book' as long as there is a because. I do require parents to practice spellings with their child in whatever way they feel the child needs to practice them, and I provide a list of alternative methods they might like to use.

Unlike many of my peers in the profession, I've worked a 12 hour factory day for naff all money (although admittedly only for months and not for years at a time) and the last thing I would want to do is hear a child read. But I have a son. So I get to school at 0745, I plan and I prep and I teach and I listen and I care and I observe and I mark and I meet and I do and I plan and I clean and I sort and then I get home about 5.30 on a non-meeting day and I cook a homecooked meal 90% of the time and I cook and I clean and I washup and I do washing and I get the Adorable Child ready for bed and we read together. We talk about his books and his favourites and his day and his toys and we sing and we play for a precious half an hour before he really ought to be asleep. And then I mark and I plan and I make resources and I think and I worry about the next day and what will happen and what I can make happena nd what I can prevent. I know it's not factory, I know it's only the glorified childminding that so many people see teaching to be, but it can be a hard job. It can also be the greatest job in the world.

The worst thing about teaching isn't the children, they're great, it's the parents and the famillies. Some want the school to do everything, from teach the child how to use a knife and fork to teach them algebra. Some resent the influence a teacher has on a childs life and viewpoints. Some resent having the child in 'the system' in the first place. Some read every day and then moan when I haven't heard their child read in 2 days - I only have 30 compared to their 2 after all. Somne push the child, produceing 5 pages of story when I asked for a character description in preparation for the next day because I want the child to have time and space and quiet to think about thier character rathern than have to rush it in the paltry 45 minutes I am allowed for writing these days. Some never read with the child, the book is lost, the spellings are not done, the homework is unfinished, and the child makes little progress compared to what they could have done - but that's the teachers fault as well.

I don't care what socio-economic band my famillies fall into, nor what job my kids parents have, or if they have a job, or if they earn £900,000,000 a week, or hunt the postman for the giro. I care if the child is well fed and happy and well looked after and not bruised. I care if the child has cared enough about what they are doing in school to do extra work at hme. I care if the parents care enough about their child and it's future and it's education to show the child how important it is to get things done on time and to the best of your ability, and to help them achieve that.

Teachers aren't all slaves to the government, but neither are we there to be bullied by smug and sanctimonious parents who have such a strong belief in what they see is right that they feel they can impose their will on the rest of our classes without even knowing who they are. You have the time and the effort and the inclination and the resources and the interesting life and all those things that make your son one of the luckiest children on earth, IMHO. Not every parent has that. Not every parent can do that. Where I was teaching in 1998, 1/3 of my parents were illiterate. Over half were second generation unemployed. Getting homework was something the children liked because they could achieve something. I think about the homework I set carefully. I have been known to give out worksheets when I wanted to see who had understood and who hadn't, or when the practice needed doing, or when the children asked for more of the same because they liked doing them because they were a challenge for them.

I'm stopping now because this is a huge long post and I actually came on here to post a question, which I shall now go and do, and because I have some more groups to sort and 30 books to mark and it's already 11pm. I expect I'll do them in the morning. I'm sorry if this turned into a rant (and I rather fear it did). I'm proud of what I do and I think long and hard abut 95% of it. (The other 5% I'm allowing myself for a bad day, which happens every now and again to all of us.)

Sarah

[red]

Stonehead - have you considered home ed as an option?

Yes, but the Big Lad wanted to go to school and still does.

fairy nuff