Self Seeded Tomatoes

[Millymollymandy]

Just for fun I left 5 tomatoes to grow where they had self seeded in various parts of my veg patch. All 5 have turned out to be cherry tomatoes that I grew last year and different varieties. Last years were all F1 hybrids. I can't so far see a single difference between the parent plant and the self seeded one.

One of the varieties that I haven't yet had a ripe fruit from is Mirabelle, one of those that produces a truss with literally hundreds of flowers which form tiny little yellow fruit (actually there's just too many of the damn things to possibly eat!), two are round and could either be Sweet Million or Pepe, and one is the oval/plum shape which I think looking at the tiny pics from last year's bought ones is Apero. These last three are red fruit and they taste fabulous.

I have looked after these plants far less than my 'real' plants in terms of feeding and watering and they've gone a bit mad with side shoots at times and I've just hacked them off willy nilly, but they are doing very well. The two Mirabelles are probably a bit behind in terms of ripening as they are amongst the sweetcorn which now has been completely overrun by 2 Jack Be Little pumpkins so they are somewhat shaded and in cramped conditions!

So in terms of an experiment I can't see any difference between the parent F1 hybrid and the plants from their seed!

Of course I have FAR too many tomatoes again this year and still have about 15 bottles of sauce left from last year I am trying to use up.....

[Millymollymandy]

Here's one of the swamped Mirabelles! It does have fruit forming but you can't see that very well (and the red onion bags are protection cos the birds are attacking my sweetcorn).

[Odsox]

All a con getting fresh F1 seeds every year ?
I'm growing saved F1 tomato from Lidl tomatoes and like yours they are exactly the same as the ones I bought. I suppose if I save some for next year it might be a bit different as they are surrounded by Tigerella, Tommy Toe and Costoluto so would very likely be some strange cross breed that might or might not be a beneficial cross.

Growing squash or pumpkins amongst corn is the accepted way but this year it's showing that it may NOT be the best way. I grew two squash and planted them either end of my corn bed, one grew into the corn but the other one headed off in the opposite direction. The one in the corn has produced 2 squashes and the one out in the open has produced at least 10 so far.
So I don't know what I shall do next year.

[Davie Crockett]

you could always use your surplus Toms to make wine

The only word of caution for red tomato wine is to use only perfectly ripe fruit. They should also be freshly picked. If you have a large crop coming ripe all at once and have already canned enough for the off-seasons, then this recipe will be a bonus. It makes one gallon of wine, but multiply it out by however many 4-lb batches of tomatoes you have for the wine.

RED TOMATO WINE
4 lbs fresh, ripe red tomatoes
2 lbs granulated sugar
3-1/2 qts water
2 tsp acid blend*
1/2 tsp pectic enzyme
1/8 tsp grape tannin
1 tsp yeast nutrient
1 crushed Campden tablet
1 pkg Champagne or Montrachet yeast
Boil water and dissolve sugar. Meanwhile, wash and cut fruit into chunks, discarding any bruised or insect-scarred parts. Pour fruit and any juice from cutting into nylon straining bag in primary. Tie bag and squash the fruit. Pour the boiling water with dissolved sugar over fruit. Cover and allow to cool one hour, then add acid blend, tannin, yeast nutrient, and crushed Campden tablet. Stir, recover and after 12 hours add pectic enzyme. Wait another 12 hours and add yeast. Stir twice a day for 7 days. Remove nylon bag and allow to drip drain, adding drained juice to primary; do not squeeze bag. Siphon liquid off sediments into secondary, top up, and fit airlock. Rack every 60 days until wine clears, then wait two weeks and rack again. Add stabilizer, wait 10 days, sweeten to taste with sugar water, then bottle. Wine will mature in one year and should be served chilled. [Adapted from Terry Garey's The Joy of Home Winemaking]



GREEN TOMATO WINE
3 lbs fresh green tomatoes
1 qt balm leaves, including stalks
1 lb raisins (or sultanas or currants)
1 lb maize, barley or wheat
2-1/2 lbs granulated sugar
3-1/2 qts water
2 lemons or oranges
1 tsp pectic enzyme
1/8 tsp grape tannin
1 tsp yeast nutrient
1 crushed Campden tablet
1 pkg Champagne or Montrachet yeast
Soak the grain overnight. When ready to make wine, pour boiling water over raisins (or sultanas or currants) and let soak about 15 minutes. Meanwhile, drain grain and chop tomatoes. Mix grain, raisins, balm leaves and stalks, chopped tomatoes, and the peels of the citrus fruit (careful to remove all white pith) and pass through a mincer. Place minced ingredients in nylon straining bag in primary. Add sugar and tannin. Add 3-1/2 qts boiling water and stir well to dissolve sugar. Cover and allow to cool one hour. Add crushed Campden tablet and juice of citrus fruit. Wait 12 hours and add yeast nutrient and pectic enzyme, stirring to mix. Wait additional 12 hours and add yeast. Ferment seven days, gently squeezing bag of minced ingredients 2-3 times a day. Remove bag and allow to drip drain, then squeeze well but not too well. Pour all liquid into secondary and top up with water to within 2-1/2 inches of airlock. Rack after 3 weeks, then again every month until wine clears and no additional deposits form during two-week period. Bottle and allow to age 9-12 months. [Adapted from C.J.J. Berry's 130 New Winemaking Recipes]

I've made a very successful red tomato wine before from a different recipe (Which I can't presently find!)
These are from http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/reques14.asp *Acid blend is a commercially available mixture of Tartaric acid
Malic acid & Citric acid

[Millymollymandy]

Tony it's the first time I've tried squash in amongst the sweetcorn cos as you know I normally have to get in there and water a lot - but this year I thought oh why not try it as there's so much wasted space - not knowing how enormous the Jack Be Littles plants grow compared to Potimarrons or Butternuts!

Luckily there has been 'enough' rain this month (since it got impossible to get in there) so I haven't needed to worry about watering them!

My potimarrons are about 3rd generation self seeded from self seeded and really this year are not so good - slow to get started, had some kind of disease on the early leaves, small plants and a distinct lack of fruit. So I'm going to buy a new packet of seed next year and start again.

And Davie I don't drink but that might come in handy for someone who does - you can make both green and red tomato jam as well you know!

[Odsox]

My potimarrons are about 3rd generation self seeded from self seeded and really this year are not so good - slow to get started, had some kind of disease on the early leaves, small plants and a distinct lack of fruit. So I'm going to buy a new packet of seed next year and start again.

I had a similar problem only my potimarrons went very fibrous, so this year I'm growing Uchiki Kuri purely because Graham said he preferred them to PMs.
They look just like PMs only a bit smaller, but I haven't eaten one yet ... so woe betide Graham if they're rubbish

Funny how we seem to wander off topic quite easily.

[grahamhobbs]

Odsox, don't blame me because I'll just pass the blame on to your weather. I went down to Margate this weekend, a friend runs a small box scheme there. Most of their pumpkins are finsihed, the foliage dead, the fruit perhaps a little on the small size for the varieties because of the dry summer they've had, whereas mine are green and rampant but the fruit are only just getting going and we are only 60 miles apart. But no I don't think you will be dissapointed in the taste of the Uchiki Kuri.

[Odsox]

Oh I will most definitely blame you Graham, you had better pray that I do like them.

I have about 4 that are deep orange, so are probably ready, all the rest are still bright yellow.
I will probably try one this week sometime so you won't have to wait for long.

[Millymollymandy]

Now that's interesting Tony cos the Jack Be Little packet says they have a nutty flavour and somebody somewhere in internetty world recommended them. They are supposed to produce loads of small fruit which I thought might be easier to deal with than say a potimarron, which although they are not huge, there's quite a lot there if you only want a few chunks for roasting.

But they are a way from being ripe yet and I don't even know what their final size will be - I may have to remove some leaves to get some sun on them.

Yes off topic-ish but hey it's my thread so if we want to talk about pumpkins then we can.

But back to cherry tomatoes I tried to give some away to a neighbour but she blanched and said, errrrrr we have loads of tomatoes..... hey ho!

[phil55494]

Of the self seeded toms, if you like them you should save some seed for yourself in case they don't self seed again. Bit of a faff preparing the seed but easy enough - t'other half's sister has been growing toms from saved seed for a number of years now.

[Odsox]

Oh I will most definitely blame you Graham, you had better pray that I do like them.

You're in luck Graham, panic ye not.
We had our first Uchiki Kuri for dinner tonight and it was very nice. Compared to Pottimarron I think it is a bit dryer and a bit better flavoured. Next time I think I will try it steamed and then mashed with butter and a grating of nutmeg.

[Millymollymandy]

Of the self seeded toms, if you like them you should save some seed for yourself in case they don't self seed again. Bit of a faff preparing the seed but easy enough - t'other half's sister has been growing toms from saved seed for a number of years now.

The most irritating thing is that I don't have a Sungold, which was one of my favourites last year and the year before. Unfortunately this year there were no Sungold plants for sale at the garden centres! Maybe I will have to buy a packet of seeds, but I do find raising toms indoors with no greenhouse a bit hard - although my Gardeners Delight have come good eventually.

I will save a few seed of the little red plum shaped ones though so thanks for that reminder.

[Millymollymandy]

Hey, I've just googled Uchiki Kuri and I could swear I'm looking at photos of Potimarrons!!!!!!!

[Millymollymandy]

Think both Graham and Tony understand enough French to read this from French Wikipedia

"Les variétés portant le nom commercial de "Potimarron" sont notamment : Uchiki Kuri, Akaguri, red Kuri, Potimarron français ... Elles ont un aspect semblable : une forme de toupie rouge ou orange, de un à trois kilogrammes. Elles ont toutes une saveur douce, un goût prononcé de marron et une chair épaisse et particulièrement crémeuse"

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potimarron

Guess mine are the Potimarron francais - on seed packets they only ever just say 'Potimarron'. I thought that WAS a variety of squash/pumpkin!

[Odsox]

So they are probably all the same then.
I didn't weigh the one we had last night but all the fruits seem to all be exactly the same size and quite a bit smaller than the Potimarrons I grew before, certainly at the bottom end of 1 - 3 Kg.
Just the right size for two.

I forgot to tell you, do you remember those serpentine butternut oddities I grew last year ?
You commented about how difficult they would be to peel ?
Actually they were VERY simple to peel, I cut them into 1/2" thick discs and peeled them like a piece of cucumber, in fact a lot easier than regular butternuts.