How much to plant?

[niknik]

does anyone know of any lists , guidelines of say average yield for plants?

I´m quite limited on space, so can only get a few of everything in, but being new to this ( last year was my first attempt)
I have no idea what to aim for.
Obviously , some things like cabbagge, cauliflower, leeks , onions, its fairly easy, but with beans, peas, sweetcorn broccoli.. etc ...... if a decent vaerage harvest, then how many plants per person. for an average consumption?

Potatoes, I cant do, as not enough room, jst a few in containers for salad pots. Tomatoes I wantloads ( suaces/ chutneys, so will put in a couple more than last year, same with peppers and cucumbers ( there just werent enough!)



I can cram a fair bit in,bt had hoped to do most stuff from seed, and if just too many plants, well I can feed them to the chickens, but I,m having very little success getting stuff to greminate, so willhave to end up buying seedlings, so I dont want to get 10 of something if 2 woulld suffice.

Any advice please

[Millymollymandy]

If limited in space then I would rule out sweetcorn, you could get more spuds in with a much higher yield per m2 than for sweetcorn!

I normally grow 3 cucumbers which is about 2 more than 2 people need but you never know if one is going to die or not. They do take up space but I grow them up fence wire support and tie them in, to keep as much as possible off the ground.

With all our other veg I find that 3 or 4 French beans is more than ample for 2 people, and about 3 or 4 runner beans would be more than enough too. Last time I grew them I had 10 plants and I was composting kilos of the damn things.

It's amazing how few of certain things you really need - except for peas which you need tons of as I discovered last year!

Oh and only one courgette or you will regret it!!!

[pops]

this is a really great idea for a thread!
i have the opposite problem, tons of space, but no money! i have discovered a couple of good suppliers for seed and seedlings on ebay but need to know how much to grow for 3 hungry boys in the family!

[Green Aura]

I found this on t'internet somewhere. Thanks to whoever! It's not going to be hugely helpful for container gardening but might give you a few ideas but should give some indication for pops.

Fact File Self-sufficiency guide
This summarises how much to grow to feed a family of two adults and three children. Each of the rows is 4.5M (15ft) Long. Also included is advice on how much to harvest for each meal. Remember that it is always better to pick your crops fresh for each meal and eat them as soon as possible after harvesting. Leaf vegetable, in particular; begin to lose some of their nutritional value immediately they are harvested. If you have a surplus of a particular crop, don't allow it to get old and tough: gather it and freeze it while it is still young and tender or give it to friends.
Beans
Broad: 3 rows (plus one for the freezer, if needed), 45 cm apart, seeds 30cm (1ft) apart. Pick 340g (3/4lb) of pods when young for each adult, 226g (1/2lb) for each child. When pods have filled out, pick 226g (1/2lb) for each person.
French: 5 rows, 30cm (1ft) apart, seeds 25cm (10in) apart. This should also give you a surplus for freezing. Allow 170-226g (6-8oz) per person.
Runner: 1 double row, 60cm (2ft) apart, when grown up a support. On the flat, 4 single rows, 60cm (2ft) apart. Seeds 30cm (1ft) apart. Pick 226g (1/2lb) per person.
Beetroot
1 row for summer salads gives 30-40 small beet; 2 rows, 30cm (1ft) apart, for autumn and winter use.
Broccoli, Purple Sprouting
1 row of six plants. Pick without any large leaves, allowing 170gm (6oz) per person.
Brussels Sprouts
6 rows, 45cm (18in) apart, plants about 60cm (2ft) apart, but distance varies according to variety. Aim for 20 early, 20 mid-season and 20 late maturing plants. Pick 26g (1/2lb) per person.
Cabbages
Spring: 3 rows, 45cm (18in) apart each way, some to eat as spring greens, allowing others to heart up. Allow 226gm (1/2lb) per person of greens.

Summer, autumn: 2-3 rows 9giving 20-25 heads, depending upon size), 45cm (18in) apart each way on average. For the family of five you will need a cabbage trimmed of coarse outer leaves weighing 1.10 - 1.36kg (2.5 - 3lb).

Winter: 3 rows, plants 45cm (18in) apart each way to give about 30 heads, Each with a finished weight of 1.36 - 1.8kg (3 - 4lb).
Carrots
Early: 2 rows, 15cm (6in) apart, do not thin. Pull 6-9 carrots per person for earliest feeds, 4-5 when larger.

Maincrop: 2 rows, 20cm (8in) apart. Allow 170g (6oz) per person.
Cauliflowers
Spring and summer - 15 heads; autumn - 12 heads; winter - 12 heads. Winter 75cm (2.5ft) apart each way, others 60cm (2ft) apart each way, except for mini-caulis. A 1kg (2lb) head with leaves trimmed will serve five people.
Celery
1 row, 1m (3ft) wide with about 25 plants staggered and 15 - 22cm (6-9in) apart. For braising you will need 3 heads for six people.
Courgettes
6 plants, 1m (3ft) apart each way. Allow 226g (1/2lb) per person.
Kale
3 rows, 60cm (2ft) apart each way. Pick while young allowing 171g (6oz) per person.
Leeks
3 rows, 30cm (1ft) apart, 25cm (10in) between plants. Allow one well grown leek per person.
Lettuce
Cos or cabbage types, 2 rows 30cm (1ft) apart, sown half a row at a time for succession, thinned 15-22cm (6-9in) apart. Depending upon variety. Pick as required for salad or sandwich use.
Marrows
4 plants of bush type, 1m (3ft) apart. A 1.3kg (3lb) marrow is sufficient for the family.
Onions
Spring: 1row, sown a third at a time for succession.

Maincrop: 450g (1lb) of onion sets consists of about 100 bulbs. Place 10cm (4in) apart in rows 30cm (1ft) apart to give a finished crop totalling 22.7-36.3kg (50-80lb) which will see you through the winter and spring.
Parsnips
2 rows, 20cm (8in) apart 7.5cm (3in) between plants. Allow about 340g (3/4lb) of untrimmed roots per person when used as a main vegetable.
Peas
6 rows, (3 early, 3 maincrop), 1m (3ft) between rows, 7.5cm (3in) between seeds. This should give a decent surplus for freezing. For early varieties picked young allow 450g (1lb) of pods per adult. For maincrop, picked with full pods, allow 280g (10oz) per person.
Potatoes
3kg (6.6lb) of seed potatoes for every 3 rows produces 22.7-31.7kg (50-70lb) of earlies and up to 45kg (100) of second early and maincrop varieties, but a lot depends upon the variety and the season. Allow 170gm (6oz) of earlies, and 226g (1/2lb) maincrop (unpeeled) per person.
Radishes
2 rows, sown thinly, half a row at a time for succession, 15cm (6in) between rows.
Shallots
Pickling, 1 row, bulbs 30cm (1ft) apart. Cooking, 2 rows, bulbs 30cm (1ft) apart each way.
Spinach
Summer, 3 rows, 30cm (1ft) between plants, 37.5cm (15in) between rows. Winter, 2 rows, spacing as for summer. Allow about 141g (5oz) of leaves picked young with a minimum of stalk.
Swedes
2 rows, seeds 15cm (6in) apart, 45cm (18in) between rows. Allow 280g (10oz) of untrimmed roots per person when used as a main vegetable.
Tomatoes
Outdoor bush type, 6 plants, 1m (3ft) apart each way. Outdoor standard type, 6 plants, 45cm (18in) apart in row.
Turnips
Summer, 2 rows, 25cm (10in) apart, seedlings thinned to 10cm (4in) apart. Winter, 2 rows, 30cm (1ft) apart, seedlings thinned to 15cm (6in) apart. Allow 226-280g (8-10oz) of untrimmed root per person.
© Reproduced by kind permission of the publishers David Charles from the book "Organic Gardening" by Roy Lacey, ISBN 0-7153-9175-5.
(With thanks to Barry Webb for arranging copyright clearance).

I haven't tried it - and only found it when looking for something in my gardening files a few days ago. I don't quite understand what the per person amounts mean (per serving, per year? ). Oh and I've just seen the reference at the bottom - hope it's OK to put it here!

[Odsox]

I can certainly give you some numbers as I try to be totally self sufficient in vegetables and coupled with a crap memory I decided last year to keep very detailed account of when and how many items I planted, rather than the hit and miss of before.
Bear in mind though that different climates will produce different results, so my mild damp climate is probably a bit more relevant for Pops than you Niknik. For instance MMM's 3 or 4 runner bean plants would mean starvation for us, where I plant two staggered rows of 12 plants (that's time staggered rather than space staggered )
There are just the two of us, so you can extrapolate for your own situation.

Broad beans, last year I grew dwarf Sutton and from 32 plants I harvested 3.5 kilo (froze) and several fresh, so probably about 4 kilo all told.
Peas, I grew Onward and sowed 1.5 packets which was 400 peas, and I froze just over 3 kilo and had many fresh, so again probably about 4 kilo.
French beans I don't freeze, but I planted 12 Fasholt climbing beans which kept us in green beans until the runner beans started.
Borlotto beans, I planted 20 plants and harvested a sweet jar full of dried beans, which is just about the right amount for us.
Butternut squash, I planted 5 and harvested 19 (too many as I've still got 9 left, only plan to grow 3 plants this year)
Sprouts, also planted too many and this year I plan on growing 8 plants and 5 Purple sprouting broccoli.
Sweetcorn was a bit of a disaster last year, I planted 30 and froze 2.5 kilo of kernels ... should have been more.

I can't think of anything else that's not obvious, like cabbages and cauliflowers, except if you grow broccoli (calabrese or tenderstem) don't forget they produce a lot of side shoots as well as the main head. I plant 4 seedlings at a time about once a month.

Hope that helps.

Edit. Maggie posted just before me, so not sure if my offering is as relevant now.

[pops]

thanks GreenAura :)

[Zech]

Thanks - this is really helpful

I find Tony's version easier to relate to than 'rows for a typical family' so yes, it is relevant.

It's nice to have some reassurance that I really do need to fill my garden with peas

[Millymollymandy]

Yes I guess reading other people's experience that a lot depends on climate/soil etc. Some people only get one pumpkin per plant or one corn cob whereas I can get 10 pumpkins off one plant and about 6 cobs per sweetcorn plant.

My french neighbours are always aghast at my paltry 3 or 4 French beans then they sow about 100 - but they don't tend to eat any other vegetable except lettuce and they bottle their beans as that's about all they eat in winter as well. I gave my neighbour a cucumber and she had to ask what to do with it as she'd never eaten cucumber before.

[niknik]

Thanks to all, thats a great help.........

i do appreciate that yield can vary, depending on conditions..heat, water, soil, etc, etc, as well as variety, but its all a good indicator.

I have 3 seperate "plots", about 20m2 in total, but 2 have a couple of trees in there as well , and a rose bush. so realistically its only about 14m2 for the best 2
the other one is unfortunately shaded most of the year, except in high summer, so not the best location!

I tried some french beans last year, but they didnt do very well, but then I tend to eat just 3 or 4 at a time in a salad!

Peas. well I got a fw plants at the end of last year, and put them in, forgot aboutthem and found them when weeding the nettles ( the weeds do realy well!) and they are now producing quite nicely!. They are proper peas, btu Ive been eating them small and whole as if a mangetout!..( but I´ve sown some of those this year! )

Potatoes, well having seen the price they´ve gone up to, I might reconsider, and put more in! They are usually so cheap, it doesnt seem worth it, better to use the space for more expensive stuff, but nearly everything else is cheaper at the moment

Have to sit down now and go though the lists above carefully and make some decisions...... and I think most of the PSB seedlings will get sacrificed!

[wulf]

Take lots of notes. It still depends on external factors like weather but at least you will be building a better picture of how things do in your location.

I'd be cautious of buying seedlings. The additional cost is likely to wipe out most of your savings, especially when you figure in the probability that some of your plants will die before they produce anything. Also, be a bit wary of trying to jam in too much - you can end up with lower yields as each plant competes too much for the same resources. What you can do though is intersperse different crops that have different requirements and also take advantage of quick growing things like radishes and many salad leaves - sow those at the start and, as the other plants get bigger, harvest the quick stuff leaving bigger spaces for the others to grow into.

Wulf

[niknik]

Lettuces/salad leaves.I havent bought any lettuce since last June.......... they´ve done well, some in pots, some direct in ground
I get the seedlings at a big stall at the market, and for most things, it´s actually a lot cheaper than a packet of seeds , especially as with many things, I´m having no luck with seeds.
The advantage of gettig seedlings from them, is they have the right varieties for the time of year!

I know from lastyear, some stuff i put too close, and other things, too spaced out!

Onions and leeks, will just be in conatiners this year, as too long in ground, and making it awkward now to plant things this year
radishes and crrots werea toatl failure 0 carrots.1 (small )radish, but am trying again!

Courgttes werentany good either. well they might have been ifI´d realised there was a pale green /yellow variety , they went mushy whilst I was witing for them to ripen! ( except 1 which grew very large...

I got about 3 melons , small but tasty, and 1 watermelon ( small as well ), bt the cherry tomatoes.....like triffids!

[wulf]

If you have a better source for seedlings than a garden centre, then it may be economical to buy them; that way, someone else takes the risk of them not germinating.

However, it would be worth figuring out why you are having a problem with seeds. Some just take a while to get going; others can be started on damp kitchen towel (chitting) and not put in a growing medium until you see them start to sprout.

Wulf

[niknik]

some seeds are coming up, some arent!.4th go with tomatoes..... 1 has come through!.

I have tried them in different places, for warmth, or for less etc.....
and this year got some compost. Last year I thought some were coming up. but couldnt tell the difference between the actual item and the weeds, as just used garden soil mainly they were weeds

Had to buy some tomato seedlings, or at this rate it will be Christmas before I can pick any of my own!

The market stall, actualy caters to the local "farmers" too.......... you often see them bulk buing loads of seedlings...
spending 20 or 30 euros ( and thats a LOT of plants. )

I started very early, which might account for some of the failures....... I ´ve done the warm water, and discard floaters. havent tried "chitting" so that will be nextstep this weekend!

[godfreyrob]

I have used this book for years - it has tables of yields per row, etc.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Organic-Gardeni ... roduct_top

My book has fallen apart as I have read it so much (as has the reviewers on amazon).

[Keaniebean]

Hi Nik nik, I have the same problem as you. In total I have 3, 2x1meter raised beds and 2, 1x1 meter raised beds. I have found it useful over the past 4/5 years that it makes more economical sense at least, to grow the things that cost an arm and a leg in the shops. So forget the onions and potatoes and carrots and go for the things like, beans, peas,cutting celery, sprouting broccoli, blueberries and strawberries ect. I do buy seeds but I have to accept that I end up giving away loads because I can never plant the whole packet which is a shame but heyho.

Dwarf fruit trees are great but get them into the ground if possible, I tried them in pots last year but it was just too hot for them and they dried out and the flowers dropped off. Also herbs, again because these just cost so much in the shops

Exchange bushes that are just decorative for things like green tea bushes and any hedging for things like Bay which is evergreen and can be used for cooking, and exchange pots of decorative flowers for things like nastursums, scented geraniums, creeping rosemary which all have a culinary use. ( sorry I can't spell to save my life,lol)

Last thing, and this is speaking from my own stupidity don't grow stuff you don't like just because it's easy to grow!

From my own point of view, I have just had to go with trial and error reguarding how much I can plant of each thing, but I hope this helps.