in praise of a (more) vegetarian lifestyle

[Berti]

as a response to the recent topic "with apologies to all vegans" I thought it a good idea to start a discussion here about a more vegetarian lifestyle.
of course its not everybody's cup of tea and i have respect for that...don't worry, won't come bashing you if you eat meat. (I do too, enuff said)

but since this forum is also about awareness, and being "green" and environmentally friendly where possible I really think there is something to say for the above.
I did use the word vegetarian instead of vegan on purpose....to me, differences are not too huge, might differ for you. (points of view, yadayada...)

but if you already eat vegetarian on a regular base, you are doing a good thing.
if you are trying to be more self sufficient, and vegetarian, have you considered using soybeans and making soymilk?
because with soymilk and its byproducts you could again, make quite a lot of things, so all would be used up, no waste (soymilk, make yogurt with it, and with the ground beans you can make a lot of high protein burgers cookies etc, tofu, and with the tofu you can also make creamcheese, whipped "cream", use as egg replacement in dishes, the list goes on)
and 100 grams soybeans gives about 1,5 litres soymilk......costing few maybe 40 cents or the like.
speak about saving money!

when you already bake your bread with wholewheat, have you considered making seitan?
its dead easy, cheap, high protein and delicious.
I also make sandwich "meat" with it.

if you want to live on the cheap, as meat is expensive, it could be an option.
it would give you better quality food than trying to live off cheap meat ...and more varied too.
your body would thank you (low cholesterol etc)

its the way I am trying to live. but YES I do eat meat now and then........and I do wear leather shoes.
it all depends on how the animal was treated .....so try to buy organic where possible

but I try and think about everything I buy, whether there is an alternative.
try to buy produce with no animal testing, no animal ingredients in my cosmetics where possible (make some of my own too)
but NO I do not think its possible to (always) live 100% vegan and I TRIED .......and no I am no freak either :) its really tough to do as long as we remain the smaller group doing so.
if there were more people doing it, industry would respond to that too.

my idea is that if we would all eat a little less meat (we only need 80 grams TOTAL protein a day anyways!!), we could breed less animals, have less pollution etc problems (cows and greeenhouse gases an example) we would have more space available for other things and maybe give the animals which are there, a better life by less intensive industriaL farming.....
currently we get MORE industrial farming......as seen on tv and why? because we do want cheap affordable meat and we buy it. by the masses.
I do respect those farmers, who are trying to make a difference by going organic. its a tough choice and the awareness is growing not fast enough to make the farmers do well on it (earn enough)

I dunno........but I definitely think a more vegetarian based lifestyle is less wasteful and more environmentally friendly.
we all make our choices......and any choice is good, as long as its well considered.
but lets try to make it all a bit better. :)
together.

*steps off soapbox*

[Odsox]

Berti, I have the greatest of respect for anyone who decides not to eat meat or any animal products, for whatever reason.
But I don't think that the "environmental friendly" argument is that convincing, especially in less populated parts where land is not at a premium.

Here in very rural Ireland for instance, all the farms are small and the dairy farmers keep between 10 & 20 cows and the milk is consumed locally. Beef farmers keep a similar amount of cattle and they too are slaughtered and consumed locally.

Soya beans on the other hand are shipped in from the USA, Brazil or Argentina plus another disincentive is that 93% of USA soya beans are Genetically Modified (Monsanto).

So as far as dairy products are concerned, I think down here at least, cows milk is a far greener alternative to soya milk.

I do agree though that consuming a good deal less meat would be "a good thing", especially maybe for me as I am completely self sufficient in vegetables and could live far cheaper if I didn't have to buy meat. But the problem with that is I like meat and couldn't really imagine a life without fried bacon rashers and steak& kidney pies.

[Berti]

tony, the soybeans from brasil and argentina are for CATTLE FOOD and so are the most of the USA ones.
they are all fed to cattle, which don't care about GM food.
not a lot of people are aware of this.
if we didn't have to feed the cattle, we would not destroy rainforests for it (its also burned down for other reasons but thats not about this topic)

we people can make choices, and buy local and organic.
I have of course, no idea about rural ireland :) not yet visited there, and if its as you say thats totally FINE.
as it should be...I'd even support this way.
and yes, thats the most green and environmentally option then for the people living there.
the whole point is, that ELSEWHERE things have gone totally out of hand. :)

[oldjerry]

But if you eat soya in the uk or northern Europe it has been transported vast distances,because you can't grow it here.So in terms of your effect on the enviroment it is inferior to locally grown meat fed on locally produced animal feed.Anyhow,eat what you like,and Im sure more veg and less meat would make us all healthier.

[Berti]

oldjerry, soy is being grown on europe mainland with no problems, meant for human consumption too.
example: austria but there are other countries too.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

Importing animal feed - as far as I am concerned - is probably worse than importing the meat. I'm a fervent believer in the sustainability of small-scale mixed farming, and part of this is the acknowledgement that the system can only produce a relatively small amount of meat.

We eat recognisable meat about twice per week - something roasted and a cut. We use small amounts of meat (ham, dried sausage, stocks) in other dishes as flavouring, but we also eat an awful lot of pulses. Personally, I'd be happy to lose one of the two "all meat" meals and add some more fish to the mix, but I'm more keen in this that the rest of the family, so I'll just have to bide my time.

[Odsox]

oldjerry, soy is being grown on europe mainland with no problems, meant for human consumption too

It's still many thousand kilometres to me over two expanses of sea, while here we have year round growing grass that cattle can eat (but we can't) and produce milk with no extra imported food and fatten with no extra imported food.
Also sheep live year round on the rough mountain grass and heather and fatten nicely too, in fact to my mind you can't beat new season mountain lamb fattened on wild thyme.

[Susie]

I'm agreeing with TRRE.

I agree soy is problematic, but surely it's better for people/ animals/ environment to eat meat that isn't industrially farmed & processed*, and for most of us that would mean eating less meat? Or eating more of the animal and not just the non-scary bits although I'm sure ishers don't do this. Bring back tripe! (No, really, don't).

We eat meat/ fish about twice a week at most but I would say we mostly eat local + pulses, especially at the moment as I have no money so if it hasn't come in the veg box we are not eating it. Obviously veg box + pulses does sound boring & horrendous but, no-one has rebelled so far .

* Obviously apart from places where there is shedloads of meat and it isn't industrially processed, like where Odsox lives which sounds lovely. Cambridge is not like this however and I imagine most meat consumed here is in the form of Chicken Nuggets from T***o & suchlike :-(, although there are good local butchers too.

[greenorelse]

Soya is grossly over-rated, really.

95% is fed to cattle, much of the rest goes into pizzas, chicken products and bread, none of which should require it.

A lot of the soya that a veg*n ends up consuming is used as a substitute, a look-alike, for non-veg*ns' food items, such as 'milk' or 'mince' or what have you. Maybe ok as 'transition' foods till you find your veg*n feet, so to speak.

And on top of it all, many people have soya-related problems, whether they realise it or not. All-in-all, it's not such a great thing, best avoided, both directly or through the unfortunate middle man.

Obviously veg box + pulses does sound boring & horrendous

Sounds perfect. I'll guess that we eat far more variety than virtually any consumer of other animals.

[Berti]

its well known that countries like japan and china, used soy in all its forms as basic foodstuff and did well till other stuff came in like prepared foods etc (factory food)
and that those countries had least health problems, no heart problems etc.
I really think soy (organic, non GM and relatively local) really does well as basis to make more food produce of, and not only as "transition food" when you would not want to eat dairy.
if you leave out the dairy you have to get your nutrients elsewhere.
if you decide to leave out meat, then you really should leave out dairy too, otherwise it would not make any sense. though this topic is not about going vegan. (but just a thought)

hmm. but we all seem to agree on "small scale farming is better" "local produce with little food miles" "its good to not have a heavily meat based lifestyle" "use your brains on what you eat"
and that is exactly what it was about.

[greenorelse]

its well known that countries like japan and china, used soy in all its forms as basic foodstuff and did well till other stuff came in like prepared foods etc (factory food)
and that those countries had least health problems, no heart problems etc.

This is true. Remember though that their dairy consumption is traditionally very low. Indeed, breast cancer is known by some in Japan as 'rich woman disease' due to affluence giving their females more access to western, dairy-heavy diets.

I have to admit we do consume some soya - I love the beans; they are a little 'mealy' and lend themselves well to 'baked' beans recipes.

[oldjerry]

Is that proven?? Doesn't Japan also have a really high suicide rate?..having eaten soya,that seems pretty rational to me!

[greenorelse]

[Susie]

Is that proven?? Doesn't Japan also have a really high suicide rate?..having eaten soya,that seems pretty rational to me!

There speaks a man who's never tried Cheezly ;-).

(Which makes tofu taste like the nectar of the Gods)!

[oldjerry]

Are they similar to cheesy wotsits? (oh no, we're in euphamismville again).