Squash Advice

[Mal]

So this is [about to be] my third year trying to grow squash.

2008 - good growth, no squash on it (tried harvesting some seeds from a butternut squash I ate)
2009 - weak growth, got two squash (Uchi Kuri seeds, the squash were only about fist sized, one per plant)

My questions are:

1) How many squash should I expect per plant? One seems low - just trying to work out how many to grow.
2) I've heard Butternut Hunter works well in the UK, can anyone confirm this? I thought I might try Burgess Vine from realseeds as well - has anyone tried these? Any other good varieties? I hear a lot on here about Potimarron - is this worth a try? I'm North a bit from London so fairly warm (not at the moment) but very rainy (for the last 2 years, anyway)

Thankyou!

[Marc]

I've never done very well with butternuts - they seem to be too slow growing and don't get mature enough before it gets too cool to ripen them properly. I've had good results with blue pumpkins (invincible), some extra sweet winter squash from T&M, and one called carnival I think from johnsons. They all taste lovely when ripe.
I probably averaged about 3 per plant. I have a big basket of them next to me as I type. Very decorative and a great standby all winter.
Trying lots of others this year so will be interesting to see how they do. Whatever, I think they need to get sown/planted as early as poss and be in fairly rich soil.
Good luck,
Marc

[grahamhobbs]

I grow butternuts without problem, but you need to use something like Hunter or any variety specifically for an English climate. Saving seed from shop bought ones is rarely succesful, as I have discovered in previous years.

This last year I grew 2 varieties, Waltham and a non-named variety by Cook's seeds (a freebie), both did well one (the Waltham, I think?) produced very big fruit and the other more prolifically small to average sized ones.

I don't give them any special treatment, just a thin mulch of rotted manure or compost, and got about 1 large or 3 smaller fruits to each plant.

You can save your own seed but squashes, butternuts and pumpkins are very promiscuous, so they are unlikely to come true if you are growing any other varieties nearby.

The biggest problem I find in growing any pumpkins is they hate having their roots disturbed and of course they need to hardened off well and be quite big before planting out to avoid being slaughtered by the slugs. So you need to grow them on into 5" pots, hardened them off and when planting out don't tease out the roots, just gently put them in a prepared hole. I sow towards the end of April and plant out early June. I'm in London.

[Millymollymandy]

I would give potimarron a go if I was you - I don't have that much warmer a climate than you in summer and I always get plenty of fruit on the potimarrons (even when they are self seeded ones! ) Even when we had a wet summer once I still got loads of fruit.

[Jandra]

Uchiki Kuri worked for me in the Netherlands (shop bought seed) and that's a similar climate unless you're at the shore or higher up in the hills or too far north. Perhaps you just didn't feed them enough. They are HUNGRY creatures, they are.
Happy growing,
Jandra

[grahamhobbs]

Mal, I've grown a wide range of pumpkins in London, including potimarron, uchi kuri, turks turban, jack o'lantern, crown prince, etc, etc and various butternuts.

All do pretty much as well as each other, although for taste we like the uchi kuri, crown prince and the butternuts the best.

I said previously that I just spread a thin layer of well rotted manure around them, but they are hungry feeders and my soil is in good heart to start with.

2008 was a very wet year and was not a good year for pumpkins, lots of leaves and few fruit.
2009 was not too bad, a mixture of warm and wet and we got a good harvest.

In addition to what I said before about the care needed in planting out, they need to go into a good soil otherwise add compost or manure, and you must keep them watered and not let them dry out. A sheltered but sunny spot is preferable.

[Mal]

Thanks for your advice everyone! I'll go for those 2 varieties, careful transplantation and lots of manure and see how it goes!

[theabsinthefairy]

Every year I determine that I will plant less and less squash because we are always overrun with them, and every year they are more prolific.

Last year I planted butternut squash from seeds from a shop bought squash that my neighbour gave me when they couldn't work out what it was and how to eat it!

I plant mine straight into the ground, at the edges of the veggie plot rather than in a row by themselves so I can train them to go down the edges of the plot and don't waste any space on them that way.

I planted five seeds, each plant had runners 3 metres long and we harvested 35 squash in total, each one at least 30cm long.

So THIS year I intend to only plant two seeds.

My first year I planted 10 seeds of potimarron - well , suffice to say that we were so sick of squash that even the chickens stopped eating them and demanding something else for a change.

I believe the secret of squash is to do very little with them at all, don't over manure them, or fertilise them, they don't seem to mind the wet or the sun, but if you want smaller sweeter fruits chop the ends off the runners at about a metre, the plant will through out more runners and you will get more smaller fruit along the lengths. I like larger fruit as these seem to store better in our barn over winter, and I can bulk cook one to create several meals in one go.

I have also dumped seeds into the maturing manure pile under the hedgerow - and wont be doing that again either. It looked like a pod invasion from Mars.

[grahamhobbs]

I have to say that you have to be careful in interpreting what happens in France to England. I know from experience that things in france will grow well in what I would consider totally unsuitable soil for growing things in England.

It may only be a couple of degrees warmer there but you get about 30% more sunshine than England (and I can hardly recall ever seeing a slug in the Loire!)

[theabsinthefairy]

It may only be a couple of degrees warmer there but you get about 30% more sunshine than England (and I can hardly recall ever seeing a slug in the Loire!)

Not really sure which part of France you are talking about, but it certainly does not apply to us at 715m above sea level,40kms from the Massif Central Vulcanic Park and with a shortened growing season of May to September.

We have been under a metre of snow since the week before Christmas and -17c at night for the last fortnight. Haven't been as high as 0c for a week during the day. Would like that extra couple of degrees now please

[Millymollymandy]

Yes France is a huge country with lots of different climates and as I was talking about Brittany when I gave my advice I wouldn't say we had that much more sunshine!

[grahamhobbs]

Theabsinthefairy makes a couple of important points, don't go overboard with the manure - several people on our plots plant them in manure heaps, boy do they grow but it is all leaf not more fruit - the other is planting the seed direct, not something I've ever done intentionally thinking the young plants are are too delicate (will be killed by slugs or the weather) but I had a self-seeded plant come up this year. It didn't come up until a couple of weeks after I had planted my plants out, but surprisingly the slugs didn't attack it at all, whereas my plants are often eaten (in my early days I remember planting out 50 pumpkins to have 45 eaten by slugs). Also I can't say it did any worst than those I had carefully brought on inside, given tlc, potted on, hardened off, etc, etc. So this year I'm going to try sowing some direct.

[chadspad]

Am bringing up this thread again for some advice but would also like to confirm that potimarron for me have always been the best.

My question is when do you plant yours those that are in France? Ive just seen on another sight to start courgettes and squashes from March. Im wondering if thats more for the courgettes. I usually start my squashes in May but wondered if I can get better crops and a longer season if I start earlier on my coldframe. Ive just thought this cos my friend here has started her runner beans already - she has a bumper crops every year whereas I start mine in May and theyre rubbish!! Have followed her this year.

Also, when the squashes have been harvested I leave them in my barn until I want to eat them but this year by Dec they'd all gone mouldy. Was that damp getting to them?

[theabsinthefairy]

I intend to plant my first seeds this weekend for the cold frames, they are robust plants and will transplant easily, but wait until they have at least 4 leaves, and your risk of frost has passed before having them in the garden without protection.

I have also sown them direct at this time of year, but cover them with cut off plastic bottles for cloches as protection.

And I have also chucked them into a hot compost bed at this time of year and they have sprouted and fruited beautifully.

I store mine in a cellar rather than the barn, as since my OH fitted a window in the barn it has raised the ambient temperature and those pumpkins that were left in there got too much light and a bit too damp and went mouldy.

The air needs to stay dry to store pumpkins, try to give them some space inbetween rather than touching and the coldest place possible you have available.

[Millymollymandy]

Beginning of May in the cold frame for all things like squash, melons, courgette, runner and french beans. If I start earlier inside they just go really leggy and pathetic, then the ones sown outside in May take over in a few weeks those sown months/weeks earlier. So I've learnt that that is a waste of time!

The last two years my pumpkins have gone off very quickly too. I store them inside on the windowsills because they take ages to ripen. Previous years they've been good for 6 months or more, so I dunno.

As to runner beans, they don't like being too hot or dry. Mine didn't have a repeat flowering last year unlike the previous year when it was cooler, but they produced so much that was a good thing!