tantrums? like living with a volcano!

[growingthings]

So okay, I know every child is different, but she's 4 now and I was kinda hoping that I would be able to negotiate my way through them by now, but judging by the one that just preceded bedtime I'm seriously beginning to doubt they'll ever end!....

You can spot them coming, and they are nearly always before bedtime (tired), but no matter what tactic is used, diversion, ignoring etc.. The red mist just seems to descend on her and she's screaming, gasping for breath, throwing herself around regardless and frankly I'm just at a loss as to what to do differently.

It doesn't help that DH and I get more than a bit worried about her high stress behaviour as she has a heart condition and these episodes just don't help we're told that they shouldn't have a significant effect on her heart but still...it makes you worry. She just won't bend to anybody else's direction, it has to be done on her terms only or the temper comes up, there is no compromise and we just have to sit it out until we get our little girl back!

I'm just praying (sorry!) that there is someone else out there in the world of ish that has 'been through it' a bit with their LO's as I'm beginning to feel like I'm on my own rather. Has anyone out there got any tips for survival? As I'm fading fast...

Help......

I've tried earlier bedtimes, changing the routine, offering up praise etc, but I think that a significant amount of it is down to the fact that she spends a lot of time 'ordering' her sis about and is then naturally asked to let her be, she just can't get it into her head to allow her sister to play without dominating her, so after a full day of me interfering with what she wants to do she just explodes.....blimey, I hadn't realised quite how down the whole situation was getting me...

Any tips or worldly words of wisdom greatly appreciated...

Lorna x

[Milims]

My daughter used to tantrum - for her walking away and leaving her to it worked as did throwing a towel or a jumper over her head - she liked the feel of it and calmed herself down by snuggling into it. My son only ever really tantrumed once - in a supermarket - so I threw one too to show him how to do it! I know that's probably not of much help - but I'm just trying to say that all kids are different and different things press their buttons, I do hope you foind out soon and that things calm down for you.

[TheGoodEarth]

What about diet? My daughter used to be an absolute nightmare at that sort of age after spending the night with her granny. She would come back completely wired after all the coloured sweets, fizzy drinks and E numbers my Mum threw down her neck.

My Mum still thinks giving her a chewy blue stick is a treat! Also any natural foods high in sugars gave the same reactions. There was no reasoning with her so we just let her come down on her own.

Does she get enough exercise outdoors to drain some of her energy? Is your other child the same?

[Clara]

From an ABA point of view you might want to consider the following:

- keep notes: what immediately preceded the tantrum, what was her "reason" what happened and what was the outcome. You mention that, quite understandably, it often results in something being done her way.....You might notice other triggers: an activity being called to an end arbitrarily without warning, use of certain words/phrases.

- NEVER negotiate in a tantrum, or try to have a learning experience during one. Like you said red mist descends, neither of you can think straight, chances are she can´t actually comprehend what is being said.....better to muddle through but later work out your tactics for what to do next time.

I´ve been fortunate with DD1 in that her tantrum phase was extremely brief. I read an article called "crying for connection" (not sure where, try mothering.com), and the way I chose to handle it afterwards was to take her out of the situation (even if that meant carrying her) and NOT leaving her, but holding her and just letting it run its course stroking her hair and gently saying "I know you´re angry, it´s ok" and other things to acknowledge her feelings but not cave to them. Once she was calm I would tell her what we were going to do next (always going back to the situation we were in and resolving it....e.g back into the shop, pay for our goods etc) and then find some sort of natural reward that would follow, "once we´ve paid for our shopping we´ll go and get a juice"....kind of bribery but hopefully not so direct that she sees it as the outcome of the tantrum.

HTH Clara

[Rosendula]

Sorry I can't really give you any advice Lorna, but I wanted you to know that you're not alone. My youngest will be 4 in April and has the loudest tantrums in the world - to the extent I worry that the neighbours are going to call the police or something I've mentioned it to another Mum at the ballet class and her daughter, who will be 4 in June or July ( my memory!) is also going through the same thing. So it's not just you, although I can see you have the additional worry of health problems

Here's what I think is happening: when they are babies, they cry and have tantrums because that's their way of communicating. They can't talk and can't tell us what they want. We all accept this as OK and don't worry too much. Then they get older and start learning words. They think they can talk as well as us by the time they are in the "terrible twos", and so when we still can't understand them, they get upset. Again, we know this and accept it as OK. However, when they get older still, and speak really well so we CAN understand them, we make the mistake of thinking they can also understand US. Not so. They understand the words we say, but not the reason. They can tell us exactly what they want and yet for some reason known only to adults they STILL don't get their own way. How frustrating is that? It's suddenly changed from us not understanding them to them not understanding us - i.e., why we are saying no. And even when we try to explain, they're already so busy screaming that they can't hear us.

Not much help, I know, but I wanted you to know that we're suffering it too; you're not alone

[clare]

Hi Lorna,I too have a four year old and I find if I just stop amidst the screams and say come to Mummy for a hug it usually calms her down and I can then sidetrack her or explain why the answer is no,but with my eldest I had to ignore her untill she was calmer even if it ment half an hour of screams and I did worry about the neighbours too but a hug just didn't cut it with her so you really have to try every angle untill you find one that suits and then have to do it all over again with the little one!!
My thoughts are with you,hope she calms soon.
Clare

[Mal]

Our oldest - a boy, just coming up to 3 - has started having a screaming fit at bed time - he'll go to bed, then about 5 seconds later he's up, screaming for mummy, shouting, etc. When I go out to see him, he'll ask me what I'm doing, then what I'm going to do after that, etc.

It's come up really suddenly, I'm assuming it's a phase. I once heard that young children don't really have a sense of self and other - that up to a certain age, they don't really mentally separate between themselves and other people (very Zen). Their tantrums at this age are often because they want something and therefore the assumption is that you want them to have it to (as you are them and they are you). Sounds odd, but there you go.

The way that he's now constantly asking us what we're going to do when he goes to bed suggests to me that he's suddenly realised that we are not him and that when he's in bed, we'll carry on doing exciting things. Thus the questions, what are you going to do now, etc. I suspect that in his mind, when he goes to bed we just play with his toys for another couple of hours. Certainly when I tell him that I'm going to wash up, tidy up, make my lunch and then go to bed myself he seems to accept that it's his bed time. Odd that!

Anyway, that's our experience - and my amateur explanation for it!

[suziq]

i've lived with an explosive child and it isn't easy! firstly don't beleive you are doing anything wrong!
i've added omega3 to his diet and he is a dream in comparison, I use eyeQ but i'm lucky he can swallow tabs as many of the chewy ones are gross.
bossing around the younger one is a cycle worth breaking, tho how i dont know
i was that younger one and had problems saying no well into adulthood, it never dawned on me i didn't have to do what my sister told me to do!

big hugs, parentling is well difficult isn't it?

[growingthings]

...thanks for the tips, it's even just rather reassuring to know that I'm not the only one out there with a moody child!

She's been doing much better, which I think is due to a bit of normality (we've been to SO many hospitals and appointments of late) she's managed 2 full weeks at Nursery and its her last day tomorrow, so I just hope that I can keep the momentum going and give her enough to do to wear her out at night!

As far as the bossiness goes susiq, I know all about that too being the youngest of three! Poppy is a pretty wilfull individual herself, so I have real hope for her, the trouble is she is just physically too small to resist being picked up and moved by her sis! Although she has found clinging onto the chairs for dear life until Mummy comes to rescue her effective!

Well, anyway at least theres a lull in the tantrums of late....thank God for small Mercies!

Lorna x

[grubbysoles]

Hi,

I'm not going to be much help here as, so far, my 3 year old hasn't entered the tantrum phase and is very laid back. Touch wood it will stay that way...

I just wanted to say, as the youngest of 4 who grew up with an absolute nightmare of an older brother, please make sure that little Poppy gets plenty of love and attention even though Big Sis can be a bit demanding sometimes. I'm sure you already do this, but I spent my entire childhood/teenage years pretty much quietly entertaining myself because I was the well-behaved one, while all the attention went on my troublesome big brother. I'm still a bit of a loner and not that good at mixing with groups. Maybe it's just who I am, but I would have liked to have been socialised with a bit more when I was little!

Having said that, my brother was a true nightmare - a real physical and emotional bully - and it never ended until he left home when he was well into his 20's. One of my sisters has even had counselling because of how awful things were, and I'm sure your little girl isn't as bad as that! My point is basically to make sure Poppy doesn't start quietly sitting in a corner feeling actually quite scared of her sister when she's kicking off, because that's what happened to me for about 20 years and it wasn't much fun.

The only other thing I can tell you is that the way my parents tried to handle my brother was to shout and scream at him and sometimes resort to 'the slipper'.... This did not work!! In their defence, I think parents knew a lot less about child psychology in the 70's & 80's!

xxx