Organic?

[Tigerhair]

How organic are you guys? Do you always buy organic veg/meat? Do you buy organic seeds?

[Shirley]

Hiya

We are pretty organic - and will buy organic everything where possible, but it does depend on where it's from.

eg. faced with a choice of organic tomatoes from Egypt and non organic from Spain I would buy the Spanish ones...

I would rather have no meat than non organic, intensively reared meat that may have been fed on gm animal feed.

Organic seeds!! Now, that's something I wondered about and asked this question on another board the other day - my ground is not certified organic and has been mistreated in the past. I fully intend to grow fruit and veg without using any chemicals but is it worth paying out the extra dosh for organic seeds - I'm thinking probably not in this instance.

I buy organic seeds if I'm going to eat them ;) - sunflower, pumpkin etc... although I was a bit fed up yesterday as I bought some of these from a local green shop (brilliant shop in Inverurie called The Green Grocer) and didn't check to see where they were grown - turns out they are from foreign parts miles and miles away - does anyone know of any UK grown seeds for eating??

Waffle waffle... I'm writing a book again....

Shirlz xx

[Andy Hamilton]

I think that this is another reason for the ish. I am organic ish. I only buy organic meat, so buy much less than I would as it is so much more expensive. I guess it is just the real price of food. Interesting about the animals fed on GM feed, I read in 'seeds of change' that when animals are offered a trough of GM feed and a trough of the same foodstuff but non-gm they will always go for the non-gm.

I am also 50-50 about organic seeds, if you grow something using organic methods then what does it make the food? I would like to get to the point of having my own collection of seeds from my plants to over come that need to buy them. I figure that sometimes you can get organic seeds for 20 or 30p more than non organic so I tend to buy organic in those circumstances.

I supose pumpkin seeds and sunflower seeds are both things that you can produce your self, alothough this brings up two problems. Can you produce enough and do you want to deshell all those seeds.

When I buy vegetables I go to the local green grocers who have a selection of organic and non organic veg. Some of which is also locally grown. I tend to buy as much organic stuff as I can. I always buy local apples and as such tend not to eat my favorite Breburns and instead only seem to get cox's. That annoys me actually as there are countless varieties that are native to the UK but we only seem to get one! Instead there are loads from New Zealand or wherever.

I always buy organic milk and butter and I do think it tastes better. We bought some ski yougurts (not realising that they were nestle) the other day as we could not afford the usual Rachels organic, they were no where near as tasty. I also buy organic baked beans, plum tomatoes.

As ever though the deciding factor is cash, if it is very low then we have to shop in lidli or Aldi and I don't think any of there stuff is organic.

Oh and finally (well easy to write a book on this subject ) I have bought free range eggs since I left home even when I am really skint.

[ina]

My priorities are:

a) organic and local
b) local and non-organic
c) organic but imported (for stuff that doesn't grow here)
d) non-organic and imported (to be avoided where possible)

Organic seeds aren't really that much more expensive - and then you know that it really is possible to grow this variety organically, whereas other stuff might do better grown conventionally. But of course, not everything is available as organic seed. Keeping your own is a good idea, and I'll try and do that once I know which varieties do well here.

I don't think we are in the right area for growing our own pumpkin and sunflower seed - have never heard of them being grown commercially anywhere in Britain!

Ina

[Millymollymandy]

Organic isn't big in France although there is a small section of veggies in the supermarket. I don't buy anything organic because it is too expensive. The only expensive thing I buy is the 'free range' chicken although it is much cheaper than free range organic chicken. But it's all questionable anyway as the space allowed per bird under the free range label is not much better than a battery chook anyway. The only difference is that they are not fed antibiotics.

Same with seeds, could only buy organic from a (British) catalogue and they are very expensive. The seeds for sale in France in shops are just seeds! If you raise them organically I can't see that it matters anyway???

As for organic yoghurt, c'est quoi?

[Shirley]

Some very interesting points raised here!!

SKI is now owned by Nestle - are nestle taking over the world AAARGGHHH (is it possible to get condensed milk by anyone other than nestle??)

Ina... I seem to recall that there was a big field of sunflowers in Oldmeldrum a few years ago - not sure if they are still doing it. But yeah... Andy has a point about all the de-shelling!! Mind you - the sunflower seeds I bought were from USA and the pumpkin seeds from CHINA!! Surely there must be something more local. I'll have to get searching.

Good point about the organic seeds Ina - knowing that they will grow well organically. Isn't it funny though, that conventionally would have at one time meant organically and now means with chemicals - how times change.

Apples - when we lived in Hereford there was no shortage of locally available fruits (hardly surprising really eh?!) until you went to the supermarket! We've got apple trees in the garden here but I don't think they are particularly good - not sure how long they've been here... a good crop from two of them but they turned brown almost immediately they were cut. I baked some whole so that we didn't need to cut them and they were extremely tart - maybe cider apples??

Andy - that bit about the seeds of change experiment - really interesting!! Is that on their website somewhere???

I had heard that some things are more important to buy organically - things with a higher fat content as the chemicals stick to the fat - no science to back this up though, it was something a boardie said on the green board. I do know that organic milk is good for you though - look at the omsco website for more info. www.omsco.co.uk

eggs - why not get a couple of chickens Andy!!

[ina]

Question is - do you really need condensed milk? If you need it for making sweets (bad for you anyway ), I'm sure you could replace that with milk powder; that's available organic. (I try not to buy Nestle products, have done so for years and years - but sometimes it's difficult to tell! But since I buy hardly any "ready" products, it's probably very rarely that I make that mistake.)

The sunflowers you saw might well have been for feed purposes. I know there's an area in Austria that specialises in the shell-less pumpkin seeds; they make oil from it, too.

Next year maybe take some pictures of your apples and get everybody to try and identify them? At least then you'd know if they taste like they should, or whether you have to make cider from them... (Would be terrible, wouldn't it? )

Mandy - I worked on an organic farm in France - there are some around!

Ina

[Shirley]

I took pics of the apples this year - I'll have to get round to sorting them out and posting them on my photo album.

I also took pics of the leaves and the trees in case this helps with identification... also hung the apple slices on them on winter solstice.

The condensed milk - I always remember buying fussells but this is now also nestle... Did you know that nestle have a fair trade product? Does this make them any better? I think not really - one product out of so many doesn't make up for their sins. It was for making sweets - I'm SO bad... but remember, purple organic sweeties have to come from somewhere...

[Millymollymandy]

I can buy a supermarket own brand cheapie condensed milk, only it's nowhere near as good as Nestles Milk! I need it (and I mean NEED!) it for my unbaked cheesecake. And for eating it straight out of the tin of course.

[nick]

how organic are we
I grow the majority of our veges using organic growing methods
we have our own beef that isn't organic but we know what it has been fed on for its life
have chooks for eggs (and if I am brave enough to have a try, a couple of roosters for meat)
have citrus and stone fruit trees
The Fruit and veg that I do buy is more determined by the price and quality.

[Boots]

I don't buy organic. I think it's a rort. I dunno what happens in other countries but here in Aus, our standards are very sloppy to say the least and growers have been struggling for half decent labelling for ages... Organic, like most things covers a broad spectrum rather than a clearly defined line.

This article might be interesting to some...
ht[url]tp://www.abc.net.au/landline/content/2005/s1498030.htm[/url]

I grow as naturally as is possible in todays world. I plant with loss in mind, so that I don't have to fuss too much if I am sharing it with bugs or some just grows naturally weaker. It becomes stock feed. Surplus goes to neighbours. But I have room to do this. My bird area is separate to my fruit area, so have been quite lucky there, and I will often let things ripen indoors. I raise my own meats naturally too, but do buy crushed coconut husks, mixed grains and chopped chaff mixes that are grown locally (by a friend who also grows naturally) and used as supplements when things get dry, or pens are overgrazed etc.

My mate (a commercial haymaker and grain grower) uses no chemical fertilisers, pesticides or herbicides. In his words, "Why would he? They cost a fortune!" He is not certified organic, because it also costs quite a bit and is just a big rigmorol. The bulk of the crops and meat produced around me is raised naturally, it just doesn't have the fancy stickers on it. Organic certification is just another commercial business, that I'm not buying into.

When you grow your own, you recognise colour, shelf life and natural presentation. Folks can't send natural fruit any distance without sealing it, and some gloss them with wax to ensure a shine and longer shelf life. Naturally grown fruit is rarely uniform in size, shape or even colour, so if someone whacks a box of big uniform mangoes on a bench with some exorbitant price tag attached to the word organic, am afraid I am a tad skeptical.

I have bought organic or heirloom seeds - and the main benefit of this is that the seed I then collect from the mother plant generally always reproduces. Hybrid seeds are often only good for one planting, and their seeds don't gaurantee a good second crop. Nothing more frustrating than corn that doesn't cob!

[ina]

Britain has just about the most strict standards (and controls) for organic food that you can imagine... The problem with organic food in supermarkets is that they have additional standards, i.e the carrots must not only be grown to recognised organic standards, but they must also be a particular size/colour/whatever! That really does make it very difficult for many growers to get rid of their stuff - I've known of producers having half their crops rejected by the supermarkets simply on grounds of "wrong" size. The supermarkets argue that "the consumer wants it like that". Most consumers I know say that's rubbish - we want healthy and tasty food, and nevermind the looks! So yes, you can get a box of evenly shaped and sized fruit that's truely organic - but you don't see that the farmer had to sell 2/3 of his crop as pig feed to find enough of the "right" size.

Needless to say, I very rarely buy fruit and veg in supermarkets. Well, except bananas occasionally . I only buy the organic ones ( I know how often the conventional ones get sprayed, and it's enough to make you feel sick without eating them!), and my goats love the skins, too...

Ina

[Shirley]

I definitely only buy organic bananas - but there seems to be a difference between the ones I've bought at the green grocers and those bought at a supermarket. A number of times the greengrocer ones have had VERY thick skins and been green but then not ripened properly, whereas the supermarket (organic AND fairtrade at Somerfield) bananas have a thinner skin and ripen very well. Anyone know why??

Oh, and organic carrots are another thing I always buy after reading a report in a good food magazine a few years ago that stated that the government had recommended that we peel all non-organic carrots before eating them because of pesticide residues. I must see if I can find that article.

[Hepsibah]

Hmm, I have misgivings about 'organic' food. It's another label for what we eat. Producers have to pay large sums of money for the right to have the word printed on their produce then (obviously) charge the consumer more for the name. Much of the food produced is deemed unsuitable for sale based on the size/shape/colour and what we end up with is hybridised breeds bred to be as uniform (and incidentally bland) as is humanly possible to maximise profit and give the average shopper a nice, clean display of food to choose from. For example, a free range organic chicken bought in a supermarket is still the same breed as a factory farmed broiler, bred for fast growth with lots of white meat rather than for flavour.
Buying from a small producer who hasn't been able to afford to be awarded 'organic' status either in farm shops or on your local market will normally mean that it has been grown the old fashioned way, will not look perfect and uniform, may still have some dirt on it and will taste better than anything you buy from a supermarket.

[Shirley]

Heps... great points...

Especially about the organic chicken - I had some from a supermarket and it was AWFUL!!!! Tough, not particularly tasty either. I won't eat non organic chicken from the supermarket though. Mind you, we keep our own anyway.

You are certainly right about the organic stuff in the supermarkets - it IS all uniformly shaped etc - I try to buy at farmer's markets where possible... when in Herefordshire I went to one that had a stall from the local organic farm/education place and the veggies were out of this world. http://www.primrosetrust.org.uk/ http://www.organic-sacred-earth.co.uk/p ... rganic.htm (must add these links to the links page too) Better still, the people on the stall were involved in growing the veggies/fruit and were able to talk about anything they were selling.

There ought to be a better way of giving out the soil association accreditation - a way that CAN be afforded by the farmer up the road and not just by the larger producers.