MMR Vaccination

Any issues with what nappies to buy, home schooling etc. In fact if you have kids or are planning to this is the section for you.
Martin
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Post: # 39495Post Martin »

most disease carriers are themselves immune to the disease, so that argument really doesn't hold water! :cooldude:
I've seen the results of vaccinations that go wrong - the effects can be just as crippling and dangerous as the disease itself - I have three peers who are crippled from polio, contracted as a result of the vaccinations back in the 60s, and I used to teach children who had both suffered from the effects of the common childhood diseases, and those who had probably ended up damaged from the vaccinations - and these were from single jabs, not the combined ones! :cooldude:
Over thirty years ago, we too agonised as to whether we were doing the right thing in not having our daughter vaccinated - later experience suggests that for us it was the right one! My reasoning was that both my mother and father had problems with allergies, and bad reactions to vaccines - I've followed suit (bigtime), and it seems reasonable to suppose that my daughter would highly likely follow too. As to what we would have decided without that projected predisposition, I really don't know! :cooldude:
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Post: # 39505Post 2steps »

the.fee.fairy wrote:I've read through this thread.

I'm a bit worried.

The children that are not being vaccinated - they will become either infected by the diseases, or carriers.

If your child comes into contact with a pregnant wman whilst carrying measles/rubella, you are endangering the life of the unborn child. You may not know your child is incubating the disease, or that the woman is pregnant, but should your child spread it to the woman, the baby is likely to become deformed, or have other serious birth defects.

You are putting your child at risk of death because you refuse to vaccinate them? I wouldn't do that to my dog, let alone a child.

Holistic therapies have their place, and building up strong healthy immune systems is always good, but putting your own child at risk, and other people is not acceptable in my opinion.

There are millions and millions of children who are routinely vaccinated every year, and a very very small percentage of them have problems with the vaccine. The risks of not having it far outweigh the risks of having it. I'd rather risk illness than death personally.
I really really don't mean to sound rude. I'm neither pro or anti vaccination. Personally I am not happy with them but it's up to every parent to make the best choice for their child from their own research, not pressure from either side. But do you know some of what actually goes into vaccinations? Scary reading

yes, it is true you can still die of these diseases or their complications but you can die from flu, people still die in childbirth or you get run over tomorrow but we don't stop going out or having children. The best we can do is learn all we can and then make a choice. Like so much in parenting we just have to hope we are doing the best for our children given the information we have at the time.

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Post: # 39508Post Martin »

its a classic "damned if you do, damned if you don't" - whatever you choose, you could be "wrong", and your child is hurt either by the vaccination, or the disease by not having it -as 2steps wisely says - do your research, and make your decision, and accept that you may well be wrong - that's life! :wink:
Then the dilemma I sometimes find myself in is "my head tells me "X", my heart says "Y" - I've usually found the heart is more accurate! :wink:
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Post: # 39520Post the.fee.fairy »

Martin, the point is that disease carriers are immune.
They pass on the diseases most of the time without showing any symtoms themselves, so how does someone prevent a carrying child from giving a disease to someone? I used the example of the pregnant woman and the unborn child for a reason - the unborn child has not had a chance to be given vaccinations, or to build up an immunity. They are defenceless if an unvaccinated child gives their mother a disease.

I am in favour of vaccinations. I am not in favour of putting folic acid in bread, or flouride in water, but i am in favour of trying to protect the population as a whole. I've vaccinated my animals, and will continue to do so for exactly that reason. My puppy caught kennel cough from an unvaccinated dog before he was old enough to have his. It's heartbreaking to watch an animal being that ill. Imagine that being a child.

More to the point, i would only be able to have children by miracle, so if i were to have them, i'd want to protect them. And right now, it seems i'd be safer staying away from crowds during a pregnancy in case there was a load of these children whose parents decided against vaccination - it wiould be too much of a risk in my eyes.

If you decide to or not, its not my decision, its yours. I won't argue with anyone over whether they should have their child vaccinated. If you do, fine, if you don't, fine. I just ask that people are a little more socially responsible (in general i'll add...). And that they read a lot more than just the pro/anti propoganda found on the internet.

edited to corrct the typos..

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Post: # 39524Post Martin »

if the child is breast fed (as all children should be!) they will gain immunities from their mother :wink:
Then you have the matter of personal freedom - it may be the consensus that vaccination is a good thing at this moment, it may well confer a statistical benefit to the "herd", but to deny people the right not to have them is fundamentally wrong.
When I was a child, it was the consensus that we were better off without tonsils and adenoids, it was healthier (so they told us!), and most of my friends were hauled off to hospital, where they had perfectly sound organs ripped out of them. Luckily, my parents were wise enough to consult a homoeopath, who told them it was utter bunk, and tonsils were very useful "front line of defence" organs - I still have mine! :cooldude:
Fashions change, knowledge can turn "usual practice" on it's head overnight - what we need is total honesty from the medical profession, and most particularly, the makers of drugs - I fear that we seldom get it!
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Post: # 39528Post chadspad »

I have to admit that I was a little disturbed at the amount of people on here that havent had their children vaccinated, even tho I started the thread in the first place! I honestly thought that I would get advice on not to worry about it and that its for the best etc. I thought the idea of vaccination was to keep a disease at bay, the more people that have the vaccine, the less likely an outbreak is, the less people that have it the more likely the outbreak. My doctor said, its all very well assuming the whole of the village has been vaccinated and that would mean my child would be covered if I didnt go ahead with the jab, but I couldnt account for any visitors or newcomers entering without the vaccine who could bring in the disease again. The more children that arent vaccinated in an area, the greater the risk of that disease coming back in surely. I know the pharmaceutical companies are after money but I cant believe they would purposely jeopardise children lives? Those people that cant be immunised have perhaps been OK because everyone else HAS been immunised in the past and kept the disease at bay??
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Post: # 39532Post the.fee.fairy »

Martin wrote:if the child is breast fed (as all children should be!) they will gain immunities from their mother :wink:
See, i understand this theory, but if it were really true, then no-one would get chickenpox would they? (presuming their mother had had it)

If only the mother did pass all their immunities on, it would be great, but sadly, they don't.

I was breastfed, but i still got chickenpox (at 3 months old...) and then shingles (at 5) even though my mum had had chickenpox as a child, so she was immune.

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Post: # 39536Post Firefly »

Maybe some people might find this link interesting:

http://www.pathguy.com/antiimmu.htm

Breastfeeding does pass on some immunity but not indefinitely and not equally well for everything. For instance, whooping cough is one thing for which not much immunity is passed on that way, as I understand it.

I'm a parent too, and I have worries about vaccination in that some people can have bad reactions, and obviously I worry in case one of my children might be one of those people. I don't trust big pharmaceutical companies, but I don't really trust antivax websites in general either because they seem to be so rigidly pushing a huge conspiracy theory, and seem to be so extremely anti critical thinking and rational evaluation of evidence. There is a lot of disinformation. I also find sweeping statements about how homeopathy has more effective cures for anything and everything, vaccination 'destroys' the immune system, etc. quite offputting, whatever the faults of mainstream medicine etc.

Fwiw, my second child is about to have his first vaccinations, almost certainly (I'm concerned about the idea that there could be a lot more whooping cough about in the adult/older child population than has been previously thought). He probably won't have the pneumovax at exactly the same time though - we'll probably delay that a bit. We may still delay his first vaccinations themselves, too. I definitely wouldn't say vaccines shouldn't be questioned or that we as parents don't have a duty to question what we're told and whether we should do things exactly as told, but I don't buy most of the conspiracy-theory-driven stuff on antivax websites.

Re the MMR booster, my eldest child had a fever about two weeks after that, which we think could have been down to that as no one else in the house got it. With hindsight, I wish we'd postponed it till he was completely over a cold he had - generally people seem to say it's fine to have jabs with a cold, just not with a fever, but I think it's probably better to wait till even a cold has gone. But once he was over it he was fine. Incidentally that preschool booster is the MMR booster plus a DTP booster - ideally I hadn't wanted him to have both on the same day, although he did in the end, but it could be worth spreading them out a bit, perhaps?

Overall with vaccines, some people who have them are going to wish they hadn't, because their child will have a reaction. Same goes for bad cases of the illnesses though. The bottom line is there is no guaranteed safe option, which makes it really difficult as a parent because you feel so responsible for the consequences even if they're not forseeable. Hope you can come to a decision you're happy with.

Btw this is my first post, I came here after searching for Onya bags, great website, will introduce myself properly later!
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Post: # 39537Post 2steps »

perhaps your mum wasn't immune though. I caught chicken pox 3 times (including once when I was 16 :oops: ) before I was, or at least I assume I am as when my children had it I didn't catch it!

As for breastfeeding, you would of recieved antbodies (thats the right word isn't it) for chicken pox from your mum if she was still feeding you at the time. When a baby is ill, whether the mother has had the illness or not her immune system will make and pass back to the baby what it needs to heal. Though it's great to do it at all people don't breastfeed exclusivily for long enough now to see the full benefits so its a bit unfair to judge it.

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Post: # 39546Post caithnesscrofter »

chicken pox lies latent in certain nerves of the body after infection and can be reactivated.. usually in the form of shingles (herpes zoster).

Afraid you have this one wrong.. and you have the wrong idea about what vaccinations really are. Being breastfed by a mother who has contracted measles or other childhood diseases does pass on immunity. The same idea holds for vaccination. Having the antibodies of a disease does not mean you won't catch that disease.. it serves as protection... and just that protection... not lifelong immunity like they claim.. hence boosters and why people vaccinated with MMR still get mumps, measles and rubella! Hence why you need to keep your immune system as strong as possible.. vaccines have the opposite effect... because of the antigenic complex (caused by injecting foreign proteins into the bloodstream) inducing autoimmunity in the body. If these immunities have been passed to a child and they are in good health, have not been vaccinated and they do catch say measles... the chances are it will be a very mild form of the disease.

The only "conspiracy theory" is this 200 year old medical farce of the vaccination program that makes the pharmaceutical companies alot of money not only through the sale of vaccines but, through chronic disease which the vaccines cause.

Alot of people are missing the point... all these diseases were on the DECREASE when they introduced the vaccines. Where did Scarlet Fever go? they didn't and don't vaccinate for scarlet fever and it has all but disappeared. Some of the diseases.. such as polio.. they have simply changed the diagnosis. Speaking of polio... the vaccine is dangerous to people like the childs grandparents or parents who haven't been vaccinated. It takes about 2 months for the vaccinated child to stop passing the polio virus through their faeces. People that get vaccinated for polio can also catch polio from the vaccine. Children who have been vaccinated for diseases other than polio are shown to contract polio because it has not been eradicated and the vaccines destroy the immune system making them more susceptible to catching it.

Speaking of dog vaccines.... you should read about parvo-virus and it's history.

Besides if antibodies are supposed to be so great why are people so scared of being HIV positive.. that is positive for the antibodies!?!?

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Post: # 39552Post caithnesscrofter »

chadspad wrote:It says in that report that the odds of something serious happening are 6 to 22 times higher from contracting measles than from having the jab. The a good point for the jab in my opinion. Yes there are nasty things in the vaccine but seems the disease is worse. Not so long ago there was a lad in the UK died from measles because he hadnt had the jab. I understand what some of you are saying about having a good diet etc is important, I agree - I am a Reiki practionner and know the benefits of alternative medicines - but how can a diet and holisyic living prevent a child from catching a virus?
I looked the case up of the young boy who died of measles in the UK a few years ago... it is reported he was being treated previous to catching measles for a lung condition and had a weakened immune system. So, I think it is not correct to assume that he died of measles because he didn't have the jab. In the same year... there were 77 cases of measles reported. The article says several cases were from the travelling community of which.. none suffered any complications. Two of the children had only had one injection... so, I assume all the rest had both jab and booster and still caught measles. If all 77 cases had not had the jab it would have told you so.

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Post: # 39554Post chadspad »

This particular lad died this year from measles from not having had the benefit of the vaccine, I remember seeing it on the news.
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Post: # 39555Post 2steps »

caithnesscrofter wrote:chicken pox lies latent in certain nerves of the body after infection and can be reactivated.. usually in the form of shingles (herpes zoster).

Afraid you have this one wrong.. and you have the wrong idea about what vaccinations really are. Being breastfed by a mother who has contracted measles or other childhood diseases does pass on immunity. The same idea holds for vaccination. Having the antibodies of a disease does not mean you won't catch that disease.. it serves as protection... and just that protection... not lifelong immunity like they claim.. hence boosters and why people vaccinated with MMR still get mumps, measles and rubella! Hence why you need to keep your immune system as strong as possible.. vaccines have the opposite effect... because of the antigenic complex (caused by injecting foreign proteins into the bloodstream) inducing autoimmunity in the body. If these immunities have been passed to a child and they are in good health, have not been vaccinated and they do catch say measles... the chances are it will be a very mild form of the disease.

The only "conspiracy theory" is this 200 year old medical farce of the vaccination program that makes the pharmaceutical companies alot of money not only through the sale of vaccines but, through chronic disease which the vaccines cause.

Alot of people are missing the point... all these diseases were on the DECREASE when they introduced the vaccines. Where did Scarlet Fever go? they didn't and don't vaccinate for scarlet fever and it has all but disappeared. Some of the diseases.. such as polio.. they have simply changed the diagnosis. Speaking of polio... the vaccine is dangerous to people like the childs grandparents or parents who haven't been vaccinated. It takes about 2 months for the vaccinated child to stop passing the polio virus through their faeces. People that get vaccinated for polio can also catch polio from the vaccine. Children who have been vaccinated for diseases other than polio are shown to contract polio because it has not been eradicated and the vaccines destroy the immune system making them more susceptible to catching it.

Speaking of dog vaccines.... you should read about parvo-virus and it's history.

Besides if antibodies are supposed to be so great why are people so scared of being HIV positive.. that is positive for the antibodies!?!?
yes, I know that. maybe I wrote what I did badly or you misunderstood me. I'm starting to wonder where this threads heading to be honest, feels a tad hostle to one side if I'm honest

But that's another point, why take risks with vaccination when your chid could get the disease anyway?

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Post: # 39556Post caithnesscrofter »

so, you're saying that if you catch measles your going to die then? :?

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Post: # 39559Post chadspad »

According to this news story, 60 people an hour were dying from measles just 3 years ago - those peoples families would probably answer your question with a yes!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4318131.stm
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