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I'm for the vaccine. Both of mine have had MMR with no obvious side effects. Having said that, number 2 son had measles even having had his first jab. It was rough and he was one of the lucky ones - he had a relatively mild case. Apparently 10% of children who have had the first vaccine are still suceptible to measles, although this reduces to less than 1% after the pre-school booster jab.

The study that caused the autism discussion seems to have been utterly discredited. It only studied 15 children in total and I believe the Dr involved is currently under investigation and is under threat of being struck off.

I'm sure some children could be affected by any type of vaccine that is given and as with anything in life, it seems to me it's all about a risk/benefit assessment. We decided that the risk was worth it when compared to the devastating (and much more likely) side effects of measles.

Anna x

this is a hot topic for me right now.. I too was scared into giving my daughter the 5in1 jab.. which she had. The MMR or any other vaccinations.. NO WAY! I feel bad for giving her the 5 in 1 and feel I probably have harmed her to some extent by giving it to her which I agonise over every time I think about it.

It is scientific fact that vaccinations do not work. It is proven when you research the statistics that all the major diseases that they developed vaccines for and started the vaccine programs.. all these diseases were on the decrease anyways. And there have been two people on this topic that already say regardless of immuisation their children have caught the diseases anyways. It is also fact that polio still exists and is quite rampant.. except it is not called poliomyelitis anymore it is called a certain type of meningitis. Salk ADMITTED that the polio vaccine contained a simian monkey virus that causes cancer.

It does not matter if the vaccines do not contain mercury anymore. They do contain formeldehyde, aluminium and are cultured in animal cells.. and alot of times they also contain neurotoxins such as phenylalanine. The animal cells/protein that these are cultured in MAY be from diseased animals.. and we are injecting it straight into the bloodstream.

When a human eats a protein it reaches the gut where it breaks down into it's amino acids and is absorbed into the bloodstream were it builds back up into protein that is usable by the body. When you get a vaccine these foreign proteins are not broke down properly and you are literally changing your DNA structure.

When you go to get vaccinations.. the doctor tells you that your child may have a reaction and will prescribe calpol or whatever. Most children do have some sort of side effects.. irritability, fever, inconsolable crying, convulsions etc. If you brought your child to the doctor with any of these symptoms when they've NOT had a vaccine they would be extremely worried and would not just tell you to go home and give yer bairn some calpol?!?

Vaccines destroy the immune system and this is the very system you need to strengthen to fight these illnesses.

I'm firmly against vaccines having researched it and feel really stupid for giving my daughter the 5 in 1 and will not be making this mistake again.

I haven't read enough to make any justified comments into this topic.. but I know that my 12 year old hasn't had the MMR - partly due to him being allergic to egg, but partly because I wasn't sure it was such a good idea.

My 3 year old has had two of the triple jabs... but that's it... the third was complicated by the fact that he was having operations and then cold after cold.. so it never happened.

Do you have any interesting links for me to look at CC... or anyone else for that matter, both pro and anti vaccination.

http://www.vaccination.co.uk/ is quite good

My son had all the vaccinations as I believed I didn't have a choice. when my daughter was a baby I was learning different so she had the first 3 and thats all, baby will be having none. I'm not happy about how they work or whats in some of them so feel it's safer not to have them as there's no turning back. I do feel really bad about the vaccines my children have had, but angry too - I thought I was doing what was best for them but was mislead my son has adhd and though logically I know the 2 are almost definatly not connected, particulally as his dad and most likely his grandad have it too so to me that suggests some genetic link. that nagging feeling that he may of been ok without the vaccines will always be there

what I did shirlz is found every bit of information from NHS Scotland about vaccines that I could find. I went and found out about all the statistics and ingredients of vaccines and all the history I could find about them. A good place to start for statistics is WHO and Health Statistics Scotland page. But, here's the thing... the WHO statistics for example will tell you how many people around the world have died from cancer. And the statistics are huge.. but... did these people die from cancer or the treatment of cancer. 90% of the time cancer patients die from the treatment of cancer (radiation, chemo, & surgery) not cancer itself. Did the lass from Glasgow die the other week from cancer or did she die of radiation? This has been driving me nuts this week in the news. That poor lassie was murdered. Literally, nuked. And is anyone sacked or disciplined no! And she will be down in the statistics as a death from cancer. My point is... the statistics need to be deciphered in any case. Alot of the statistics in the NHS Scotland leaflets are misleading and some extremely out of date and in some cases just plain lies.

I know that as I spoke above about proteins. Injecting the foreign proteins from different species/animals and so on into your body creates something known as an "antigenic complex". Half of your own protein particle connects to a foreign protein particle. So now your immune system recognises the entire complex, including your own body parts as foreign! This mounts an autoimmune reaction against your own body that is called autoimmunity. So, now this creates a whole new array of plagues brought on by vaccinations that have induced economic and physical slavery to pharmaceuticals through chronic diseases.

This is what it amounts to slavery to the pharmaceutical companies. We must remember that pharmaceuticals are the second biggest industry in the world. I don't trust them. It is not in their interest to make people well... it is however in their interest to keep you and I as sick as they can.. the sicker we are the richer they get! I have nothing against the doctors cause most don't really know the truth themselves, then again.. a very large percentage of doctors refuse to take vaccines themselves. But, remember... in Britain.. if a clinic has I believe it's a 95% uptake for child immunisations.. they get a bonus from the government!! Look it up for yourself. Ask your doctors this.. ask them about the antigenic complex... and ask them this..

Why is it that vaccinations are supposed to work by introducing the antibodies of the disease so, that you are then immune from catching that disease but, people who are HIV positive.. positive for the HIV antibodies will eventually die from AIDS? It's the first time ever in scientific history that having the antibodies of a disease is a bad thing! They can't answer that one.

Please look up how polio is not eradicated. They have simply changed the diagnostic formula. Polio is simply just called something else now.... aseptic or viral meningitis.

Measles is a deficiency disease and the only people who suffer from the complications of measles or who die from it do so because either they are under a year old when it can be very dangerous to have, are malnourished or are already suffering from another illness which has weakened the immune system. Measles should be treated with Vitamin A as it is a deficiency disease. Rubella is merely a malaise and is not dangerous to children but, only dangerous to pregnant mothers and their unborn children. Why should children be immunised against rubella? And what about Hepatitis B? Hepatitis B can only be contracted a very few ways and doing normal kid stuff is not one of them?!? Mumps is only dangerous after a certain age and in very rare cases can cause deafness or damage the testicles in older boys. It is also been shown that children "super-develop" after suffering childhood diseases. They actually think "exercising the immune system" causes development spurts in children.

There is so much information out there honestly. My problem is I should have followed my instincts and not what people were telling me about vaccinations. I feel totally disillusioned by what I've studied about health and nutrition and all the lies we are constantly told about it. I'm to the point that when I go the grocery store I feel like I'm under attack! Literally, reading ingredients lists and knowing whats in some of these chemicals that they lace almost all processed foods with. 95% of it is poison. Sorry, I'm digressing here but, it totally disgusts me and makes me so angry!

2steps wrote:http://www.vaccination.co.uk/ is quite good

My son had all the vaccinations as I believed I didn't have a choice. when my daughter was a baby I was learning different so she had the first 3 and thats all, baby will be having none. I'm not happy about how they work or whats in some of them so feel it's safer not to have them as there's no turning back. I do feel really bad about the vaccines my children have had, but angry too - I thought I was doing what was best for them but was mislead my son has adhd and though logically I know the 2 are almost definatly not connected, particulally as his dad and most likely his grandad have it too so to me that suggests some genetic link. that nagging feeling that he may of been ok without the vaccines will always be there

I understand your frustration! About the ADHD.... contrary to popular belief there are very few genetic conditions and diseases. A red flag goes up for me when scientists and doctors conclude something must be genetic when they do not even know what 90% of the DNA is. They call it junk DNA!?! Alot of times why things seem genetic are merely only because all the family members are living in the same environment, eating the same diet and have a similiar lifestyle as their other family members and have done so right on down through the generations of the family. This I know has been proven in alot of cases. Another quite interesting thing I heard the other day about ADHD is that it may have something to do with certain peoples reaction to how the brain processes information.. 32 frames per second is as fast as we can go... but, some people compute information through images (the instinctive way) and some people compute verbally or with sounds as they develop. And there is a disorientation in this change of process causing a whole spectrum of symptoms that are "abnormal"... and could include dyslexia, ADD, ADHD, autism and many others. My take on his view is that autism is not a product of vaccines but, is actually evolution taking place before our eyes, socalled "normal" people just do not understand their way of thinking and intellect. My interest in the Mayan Calendar would also suit this thinking, so makes a bit of sense to me. This bloke described it as something like when you're a baby.. you gradually become aware of things around you and as you become more aware.. you become motivated to go and explore things physically therefore you start to crawl and eventually walk. Some people on the other hand have the ability to explore objects better with their mind and can literally "see around corners" and therefore may be very late in development because of lack of motivation to physically explore something when they have already fully explored it with the mind. This same guy also reckons that intellect is purely based on identity. That intellect is a reflection of identity. The stronger a persons identity the more intellect they display. Quite fascinating really. This bloke was once "autistic" and never even spoke till he was seventeen and was quite severely autistic. At 19 though he was teaching calculus to engineers in the US space program. He currently has developed the only system known to help people diagnosed as autistic and/or dyslexic. His name is Ron Davis I believe if anyone is interested.

Thanks for that informative posting CC... I will ask David's dad, who is a retired GP and consultant dermatologist to look into it for me too. We don't get on that well, so I might ask David to ask him instead lol... If he comes back with any interesting stuff I'll post it here.

The bit you posted about autism and evolution was very interesting indeed... thank you.

the other thing that gets forgotten when looking for causes of such things are the chemical soup into which most children are launched these days! Most "modern" homes are chock full of "foams" of various sorts in upholstery, and under carpets - these leech fumes for 30 years or more, as does MDF, and fire retardants. Add to that the delights of the synthetic musk used in "perfumes" for everything, the pseudoestrogens leeched from plastics, and the real ones in water........the GPs who dish out toxic nostrums instead of real remedies, overheated, underventilated homes, and parents who'd sooner have the infant "safely indoors" watching the haunted goldfish bowl. Lunatic teachers who tell children the sun is evil, and slather the children in their charge with highly toxic and carcinogenic sun creams........
Then we have the mineral, vitamin and roughage lacking modern diet.......
Bally miracle any of them make it to their teens!

caithnesscrofter wrote:

2steps wrote:http://www.vaccination.co.uk/ is quite good

My son had all the vaccinations as I believed I didn't have a choice. when my daughter was a baby I was learning different so she had the first 3 and thats all, baby will be having none. I'm not happy about how they work or whats in some of them so feel it's safer not to have them as there's no turning back. I do feel really bad about the vaccines my children have had, but angry too - I thought I was doing what was best for them but was mislead my son has adhd and though logically I know the 2 are almost definatly not connected, particulally as his dad and most likely his grandad have it too so to me that suggests some genetic link. that nagging feeling that he may of been ok without the vaccines will always be there

I understand your frustration! About the ADHD.... contrary to popular belief there are very few genetic conditions and diseases. A red flag goes up for me when scientists and doctors conclude something must be genetic when they do not even know what 90% of the DNA is. They call it junk DNA!?! Alot of times why things seem genetic are merely only because all the family members are living in the same environment, eating the same diet and have a similiar lifestyle as their other family members and have done so right on down through the generations of the family. This I know has been proven in alot of cases. Another quite interesting thing I heard the other day about ADHD is that it may have something to do with certain peoples reaction to how the brain processes information.. 32 frames per second is as fast as we can go... but, some people compute information through images (the instinctive way) and some people compute verbally or with sounds as they develop. And there is a disorientation in this change of process causing a whole spectrum of symptoms that are "abnormal"... and could include dyslexia, ADD, ADHD, autism and many others. My take on his view is that autism is not a product of vaccines but, is actually evolution taking place before our eyes, socalled "normal" people just do not understand their way of thinking and intellect. My interest in the Mayan Calendar would also suit this thinking, so makes a bit of sense to me. This bloke described it as something like when you're a baby.. you gradually become aware of things around you and as you become more aware.. you become motivated to go and explore things physically therefore you start to crawl and eventually walk. Some people on the other hand have the ability to explore objects better with their mind and can literally "see around corners" and therefore may be very late in development because of lack of motivation to physically explore something when they have already fully explored it with the mind. This same guy also reckons that intellect is purely based on identity. That intellect is a reflection of identity. The stronger a persons identity the more intellect they display. Quite fascinating really. This bloke was once "autistic" and never even spoke till he was seventeen and was quite severely autistic. At 19 though he was teaching calculus to engineers in the US space program. He currently has developed the only system known to help people diagnosed as autistic and/or dyslexic. His name is Ron Davis I believe if anyone is interested.

I have read simular about adhd etc but to be honest I really don't know what to think. I just manage it by doing what works for my son, which has included cutting out additives, keeping his enviroment as free of chemicals as possible (cleaners/air freshener etc etc...)and when he was younger he took a homeopathic remedy for about a year. He has changed from almost being expelled from school at 6 t being on a program for gifted children! of course he still has problems with it sometimes but is doing so well.
I have so read some pieces about children suffering from these conditions being of a higher intellect, not that the rest of us are thick but they have gone to another level that we won't and can't understand and so label as defective in some way. We certain do learn in different ways and have different types of intelligence - I can see that with my own family. My son and his dad are good at 'book stuff' they are good spellers, at maths, science, understanding how things works, enginnering etc etc but my daughter and I aren't so good at that but seem to have a natural ability with plants, animals and more the natural/spiritual world in general.

I spent a huge amount of time researching for my son, I didn't want him on drugs and I was sure there had to be another way and answers I wasn't getting from doctors etc too and really got interested in it all. I start my degree in feb with biological psychology which I am really looking forward to and maybe I'll get further answers too

if you're exploring every avenue, I'd suggest seeking out a proper traditional acupuncturist (not the NHS sort) - they have a whole different "model" for how we work, over the years I've seen them work "miracles" many times.
Bear with the strange language - if you read into it, it makes so much sense!
- they talk about energy flows, "blockages", and use points with odd names like "leg three mile", "servant's aide", and offer treatments like "the 7 dragons"
Just because "conventional" medicine offfers neither cure nor explanation doesn't mean that they don't exist! Drug therapy is but a mere stripling of a century or two, acupuncture is the result of 6,000 years of clinical observation!

if you want a good read into the subject, have a bash at Ted Kaptchuk's
"The Web that has no weaver"

What is ADHD and what are the signs of it? When is it first noticed? What are the different things that a child might do that has ADHD?

I have found omega 3 fish oils enormously helpful to my son..miss one and I can tell in his behaviour

ADHD is used by many parents to describe their boisterous behavior only those that have a true ADHD child know what I am talking about.

My son does not have ADHD, indeed does not feature on the autistic scale at all. However has some autistic like behaviours that are baffling doctors.

martin - I spent a year studying homeopathy but am interested in alsorts like accupuncure, reflexology, hypnotherapy, oestopathy.... My son saw an oesteopath but he didn't enjoy the treatment, he isn't overally happy with being touched by people so we didn't continue with it. One thing I found taht did look promising was neurofeedback but not many places offer it and its incredibily expensive too

chadspad - Adhd stands for attention deficit disorder. Children suffer a range of problems related to Inattention/ Hyperactivity/ Impulsivity. baldowrie is right and now the name is much misunderstood due to being misused. I've never had much luck with the omega 3 oils but I have noticed recently there is alot more choice in how to buy and take them. When I was looking there wasn't the choices and cod liver oil was a no go, not that I blame him!

Martin wrote:the other thing that gets forgotten when looking for causes of such things are the chemical soup into which most children are launched these days! Most "modern" homes are chock full of "foams" of various sorts in upholstery, and under carpets - these leech fumes for 30 years or more, as does MDF, and fire retardants. Add to that the delights of the synthetic musk used in "perfumes" for everything, the pseudoestrogens leeched from plastics, and the real ones in water........the GPs who dish out toxic nostrums instead of real remedies, overheated, underventilated homes, and parents who'd sooner have the infant "safely indoors" watching the haunted goldfish bowl. Lunatic teachers who tell children the sun is evil, and slather the children in their charge with highly toxic and carcinogenic sun creams........
Then we have the mineral, vitamin and roughage lacking modern diet.......
Bally miracle any of them make it to their teens!

sends a shiver down my spine Martin. I've also been researching alot the past years into EMF and microwave pollution...sheesh. We are under attack.. literally... from every angle.