Mustard as green manure

[Magpie]

Am about to sow some green manure in my vegie garden, and had planned on using mustard as one of the ingredients, as I had a bit of wireworm in my spuds. I got to wondering though, how this fits in with crop rotation - as a brassica, can I just put it everywhere? Or before other brassicas? Or after them in the rotation scheme? Same with broad beans... everywhere, before or after other beans?

[ina]

Personally, I wouldn't put them before brassicas. I think with broadbeans and other beans it's not so important; at least I've not heard of potential disease problems. It might just be a bit of nitrogen wasted.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

The only thing I'd worry about is that adding another brassica into your rotation might exacerbate any clubroot problem you might have, but if you've not got an issue with that disease then why not. Personally I prefer tares and alfalfa as green manure because (afaik) there are really no disease issues with these and they fix nitrogen. But I am a nitrogen bore.

[Magpie]

I haven't any clubroot problems, first time the soil has been used for vegies. I recently read you can avoid clubroot if you only ever plant brassica seeds, as apposed to bringing in seedlings from outside your garden, so I plan on doing this.

I think I will just put the mustard where I'm going to put the spuds, and use a mix of beans and lupins elsewhere. Thanks for the input!

Oh, and Riff raff - what are tares?

[The Riff-Raff Element]

Oh, and Riff raff - what are tares?

Sorry - it's another name for vetch. I use it quite a bit as it seems quite popular here, even as part of large-scale arable rotations.

I'm very interested in the idea that cultivating from seed directly could avoid club root problems. I haven't had any problems here, but I've been sticking to a four-year gap. If I could get away with it I would like to rotate kale as a winter crop over two years, which would boost the amount of greens I'd have for poultry feeding. Do you happen to recall where you read it?

[Magpie]

From "The Heligan Vegetable Bible" by Tim Smit and Philip McMillan Browse.

"Assuming that one is starting with an uninfected site, cruciferous crops should only ever be raised from seed and then only within the confines of the garden. Contamination of the soil is most likely to happen when infected transplants - including stocks and wallflowers - are brought in from outside sources. For all practible purposes all of the garden crucifers should be regarded as susceptible."

Good book overall, I'd really recommend it.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

From "The Heligan Vegetable Bible" by Tim Smit and Philip McMillan Browse.

"Assuming that one is starting with an uninfected site, cruciferous crops should only ever be raised from seed and then only within the confines of the garden. Contamination of the soil is most likely to happen when infected transplants - including stocks and wallflowers - are brought in from outside sources. For all practible purposes all of the garden crucifers should be regarded as susceptible."

Good book overall, I'd really recommend it.

Thanks - I shall look out for it.

[Peggy Sue]

Not sure if anyone is still following this one, but since the contaminated farmyard manure scare I am thinking green manure. I never seem to have much 'empty' time on the allotment so I really need something fairly quick growing- I hear mustard is, but how quick is quick? I can plant it after the spuds as it's supposed to be, but I do want that space for overwintering stuff I'm bringing on, and that will be ready to go out before autumn as some green manures suggest as the digging in time.

Any tips for the uninitiated?

[JR]

I think it goes in from now where the potatoes are going next year. They say to dig in around a month before you plan to plant.

[Peggy Sue]

Thats my problem, the spuds will be up soonish, but I have white sprouting thats only just been pricked out into pots but will soon grow into plantable size in a month- will the mustard be ready to dig in by then? Sorry I've nevr grown it so I really don't know, somethings won't even have germinated by then, others are harvestable!

[JR]

I would sow it where the spuds are going next year once that part is empty. As long a you dig it in early spring it sohuld be ok.

I will green manure that area and then horse manure the area the courgettes and pumpkins are going in between Nov and Feb ready to plant the plants in May/June (in my case by June I cant get in the greenhouse for courgettes and squashes). I dont then manure the rest of the plot until its turn in the rotation.

[Peggy Sue]

I guess my problem is I can't resist squeezing as much as possible out of my plot. Where the spuds will go next year has carrots, parsnips, leeks celeriac, celery and beetroot- so they won't be done till pretty late.

I know the rotation doesn't work traditionally but having just got the allotment last summer it's the only spot that has had no spuds for 3 years so I am trying to fit around that.

I just have to push it to the limits!! Perhaps I need to learn to be more realistic.

I like the idea of something that grows really quick to do this with but have a feeling I'm dreaming a bit.

[JR]

OH nags me a bit about planting too much and not resting the ground, I think you have to strike a balance. Make sure you get in a rotation and manure (geen or not) when you need to, on the other hand we all want to work the plot and keep the veggies growing all year. Our plot was rested for a few years so its probably not vital to start with, we are lucky to have a friend with horses so we are not short of a bit of horses doings!

Check out the section on crop rotation on the link below. We are not experts, its a mixture of different information we attained put together. Its very strange as some of the information we looked at was conflictiong too!

[Peggy Sue]

I've got a horse myself so have always heaped on plenty of the real thing, but it turns out the farmer sprayed the feild with this stuff that spoils the manure, so I seem to have a useless but tempting compost heap, and the need to start learning about green manure.

When I'm rich and famous I can I have my own field, no sprays, and even someone to pick the manure up for me!