fuel insted of food

[QuakerBear]

Much as I'd like to stick my head in the sand on this one, I think I'm with Martin.

I think there are BIG troubles coming sometime in the next 50 years or so. While I do think mankind will survive, we're pretty inventive and tough chappies when he have to be, I think there's going to be a collapse of a similar scale to as happened on Easter Island where a large, complex society was drastically reduced in size, complexity and technological ability.

The other factor which makes me think this is going to happen is what I see as the growing trend of anti-intelectualism (if that's a word!) and an increasing trend to dismiss the authority of good science in favour of anecdote and badly researched sensationalist reports. A prime example of this is the number of people I meet who say, "global warming isn't happening because it was cold in January" but refuse to research the topic so that they can make an informed decision. And... are un-willing to even hear about the processes of science, such as testing a hypothesis or peer review. A reverse popular Enlightenment I suppose.

Grumble over with

[oldfella]

I would like to believe that the voices of reason that speak here within this forum would prevail in a world that now run by by the power hungry and organisations, who put their greed and well-being, before the basic needs of those not in a position to help themselves, look around our world today, and we know that we could, if we so wished have no hunger in the world, no water shortages, every human being could be protected from many of the world deceases. So the question I ask is if mankind is fundamentally good why have we allowed this. Throughout the history of mankind he has been the greatest threat to the world through his greed, and his need for dominance over nature, and over others. If this is the case (and I see no evidence to the contrary) then the edifices of power will have to be torn down in the VERY NEAR future. Look around do we see any evidence of this and as the science would indicate that we only have possibly fifty to a hundred years do we honestly believe those who are in control of world will change.

[QuakerBear]

Dear Oldfella,

sadly I agree with you and I think that there is a sizable proportion of those with real global power and influence who are knowingly acting contrary to the greater good. However that doesn't mean I have to follow them.

Maybe mankind is not fundamentaly good. Instead we might be able to achieve goodness, we are not perfect but we are perfectable. That's the idea I have to work with because anything else depresses me too much.

Incidentally I'm fed up with being called an 'idealist' by people who use that word as an insult and to belittle me or to tell me that I'm nieve and not being 'realistic'. One has to have an ideal to work towards. If we're not working towards an ideal we can either stagnate in our current state of imperfection or degenerate into degredation. I'm an idealist. I'm glad I'm an idealist and I'm going to start reclaiming that word as something posative.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

I don't think that being full of hope is the same as having one's head stuck in the sand. What gives me confidence is that there is really no need for us to believe that the technology to save the world is "just around the corner." I would contend that all the technology and science humankind needs to live a sustainable - and comfortable - existence is already available to us.

Take what we are doing right now: we will probably many of us never meet, but we can communicate and at relatively low environmental cost.

What is needed is attitude change - using that techology and cutting back on consumption, minimising travel to essentials and maximising use of local foods and facilities.

Now, that sounds like a tall order, but I would say that many, many people using this board have made that change in behaviour in the last few years: in other words we have been convinced. I know I have. That means that we can convince other people.

I stand by my "yes" vote. Hope springs eternal.

[compostwoman]

The planet will be saved...yes...because it will continue on , regardless, even if it is a hell of a lot hotter.......despite ANYTHING we can do....

The slogan needs to be "save the human " NOT " save the earth" !!!!!

we ( the human race) and a lot of other innocent species..will not survive very well..........so my answer is .NO I suspect not...we have already done too much damage to the climate for us ( and other species) to survive what is going to happen...

I despair, I really do. ( and I have a young child... .) ..BUT we have to carry on, hoping for the best but expecting the worst.............
so I do what I can, and I try to educate as many as I
can...........but I DO feel rather gloomy I must admit............

[Martin]

I think a little zen may not come amiss
"It is better to travel hopefully than arrive"

[compostwoman]

I agree Martin..as well you know from " another place..."!!

[Smooth Hound]

I am afraid, i have to say no

[porkchop]

come on there are to many defeatist out there. the human race wont go on for ever i know, but will we it up the wall.
i feel we will step back from the edge, at the last moment maybe.
but without a collective positive mental attitude our hope can only diminish
so come on (or are they saying help)
and this one just because its funny :violent2:

[dudley]

I am sorry but I just had to swing the vote in favour of the no’s.

I agree that more and more people understand that if we act now there is hope, or the future is bleak for our children.
But I also think there are too many people on this planet who are selfish, inconsiderate and self centred etc who just don’t care and choose to turn a blind eye even when they know what is happening to our environment.

I recently worked for a couple who own a massive house here in Kent UK who also own properties in Dubai, Majorca and Channel Islands. While I was at their house it was being heated by gas 24/7 even when they were out the country. They frequently shopped in Harrods (travelling by chauffeured limo) and also drive 4x4s.
They even flew back to the UK for one night so they could attend a dinner party with friends.
They are at the extreme I know, but even my own Mother (now 73) does not bother to recycle or get re usable bags for groceries.
My stepson is doing everything to be green but his Sister thinks he is a nerd and being green and organic is just another way to get more money from us by the producers.
I have not and will not give up hope and we must spread the word and keep everything crossed.

[niknak]

I voted yes. Were there's a problem there is a solution - if there is no solution there is no problem. Although mankind may be ignoring the solution ,Mother nature is far more persistant and resourceful than we are.
She may force the solution on us- a dramatic reduction in the population and life drastically different from what we know now. But we will still be here.