moving to France

[niknak]

Hi
We would love to move out to France in the next couple of years. We already have a property out there which would be ideal for being more selfsufficient. It already has loads of fruit and nut trees a large vegetable patch and loads of land, & wood to copice.
Sounds ideal? we thought so ,but now we are worrying that with the change in the law regarding health care, the cost of private health care insurance ,may put our dream of moving to France beyond our means.
Has anyone else come up against this problem?
Nick

[The Riff-Raff Element]

OK - I'm not an expert, so take what I say with a pinch of salt or your choice of alternative condiment.

Remember that the healthcare issue concerns those who are "inactifs" - which, most of the time, means early retirees proposing to live off savings or pensions.

The E106 will provide cover for upto two years, but beyond that you need to find a way of being an "actif."

To do this you have two choices: become employed, which might not appeal, or become self employed and register yourself for social contributions. If you are planning to farm your ground you may be able to register as an agricultural enterprise to sell surpluses. You could also run holiday gites. But, and this is important, to be counted as self employed your income from your enterprise must form the majority of your income. "They" will check.

If you have any specific questions, PM me and I will do my best to answer them.

[niknak]

Hi Rif Raff,
Our idea was to support ourselves with rental income from the U.K. Do you know would this enteprise count for as being self employed?
Thanks Nik

[The Riff-Raff Element]

Hi Rif Raff,
Our idea was to support ourselves with rental income from the U.K. Do you know would this enteprise count for as being self employed?
Thanks Nik

As far as I know, no. That would normally be classed as "unearned" (a misnomer, I appreciate) income and lumped in with bank interest, stock dividends and suchlike.

The only option I can think of in this case is that it might be possible to set up a French company to own your UK property and that COULD then make you self employed. But, I'm sorry, you're going to need a good French accountant to help you with that one.

[Millymollymandy]

Living and working in France is a pretty complicated business! If you find a job it won't be so complicated, but to run your own business is very different. You will definitely need to consult with an accountant. Be warned that an awful lot of what you earn whether it be bank interest or earnings, is taken away from you in social contributions.

[contadina]

The French government backtracked on the health care changes after it discovered that it would be facing legal claims from all and sundry. As with most governments, however, it has kept this fact rather quiet.

This way, they keep the French equivalent of the Daily Mail reader happy as they now think the government has taken a tougher stance on non-nationals, but in fact it was all just hot air.

So if this is your main concern, don't worry.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

The French government backtracked on the health care changes after it discovered that it would be facing legal claims from all and sundry. As with most governments, however, it has kept this fact rather quiet.

This way, they keep the French equivalent of the Daily Mail reader happy as they now think the government has taken a tougher stance on non-nationals, but in fact it was all just hot air.

So if this is your main concern, don't worry.

The current position is that EU citizens resident in France and in possession of an E106 prior to November 23rd 2007 will be permitted to affiliate to the CMU (state health) once their E106 expires. After this date and the period between the expiry of your E106 and reaching five years residency (after which you can affilate anyway) will not be covered by state insurance.

What France is doing is in line with EU law. That other countries choose not to enforce it (though Spain did a couple of years ago) is neither here nor there.

If you are below normal retirement age and cannot find a way to be classed as "actif" you will need to find a way to cover yourself until you have been here five years or reach retirement age. Going without cover is not, it seems, an easy option, even if you were prepared to risk it.

If you want the whole sorry story of this take a look at the health threads on http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/. You can also access from here some specialist websites set up to advise people on their choices.

Being self employed here is...OK but expensive. The social charges mount up. But then the hospitals are very good. Quid pro quo, I suppose.

[niknak]

So , have I got this right - If we move out and live there for 5 years, paying for our own health insurance. After being resident for 5 years we will then be covered by the state health care?

[The Riff-Raff Element]

So , have I got this right - If we move out and live there for 5 years, paying for our own health insurance. After being resident for 5 years we will then be covered by the state health care?

In a nutshell, as I understand from everything I have read in English and in French yes. Once one has been resident for five years and can demonstrate that that is the case one is assumed "permanent" and is treated as a French national would be.

But as I say, make your own enquiries from people properly qualified to give advice rather than some bloke you met down the virtual pub I am not a professional in these matters. In fact I'm not sure I've ever been in any way shape or form a professional I just had "jobs"

As a start point you could contact the DSS (or whatever they are called this week) in Newcastle. They would be the ones to issue your E106 on exit and SHOULD be fully au fait with the most recent rules.

Also, make use of the archieves on Complete France and Total France. I'm afraid the users aren't quite so well mannered as on this forum (which is a breath of fresh air - people actually taking trouble to be polite to one another!) but there is a lot of useful information there for a persistant lurker. I don't post there much myself: I have a hide like a rhino, but being continually savaged by rabid wolverines can get tiresome.

[Green Rosie]

We moved out to France last August so are still real newbies here. A lot of things work differently here but generally we have found everyone very helpful, especially if you are willing to at least try and speak French. Our philosophy is - give it a go - 'cos you don't want to reach a point where it is too late and you regret not doing it. If it all goes pear-shaped then move back to England and try something new there. Life is not a dress rehearsal (and this from some-one who deep down hates change and would never had left home if my parents hadn't up and left to retire elsewhere!)

We moved to create a better life for ourselves and 2 young boys - we can now afford a 1 acre garden, they can run freely in the local countryside and attend a school with less than 60 pupils. We may be new here but we have been made very welcome and love being part of a small rural community with the opportunities to live a more SSish lifestyle.

[niknak]

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions and for giving positive and helpful advice. I quite agree, people on this site are really refreshing in the way they are so helpful and never dismissive of peoples questions. Thankyou!

[contadina]

I have a sister and brother both living in different parts of France and they both received letters confirming that all extant residents would continue to qualify for free healthcare whether they are economically active or not.

The speculation in France is that well-organised legal challenges (class action) planned by those affected meant that a U-turn had to be taken.

[Millymollymandy]

Healthcare is not free! The state system only refunds you about 70% of the cost (in most instances) - you have to take out a top up insurance for the rest. That currently costs two of us about €1,000 p.a.

The amount my husband pays towards healthcare via his cotisations (equivalent to NI contribs) is a lot more than what we would pay for private health insurance.

Then of course you have to cough up for the rest of the cost of dental care and glasses that are neither covered by the state nor your top up.

[contadina]

Sorry I meant above and beyond what French nationals have to pay.

[cheapandcheery]

We moved out to France nearly three years ago, and for the first 2 years tried to be totally self-sufficient, even down to solar panels.

We loved keeping all the animals..pigs, geese, ducks, rabbits and chickens..BUT unless you have enough land to grow your own animal feed..corn, oats, hay etc by the time you have bought it in it's quicker and cheaper to go to Inter Marche. Geese and Turkeys are the only ones that will get the bulk of their needs from grazing grass and weeds, and only need to be topped up at night. Pork in France is delicious...not the rubbish that you get in England that's been pumped up with water.

Having said that we loved it and we had a compost heap to die for...helped by my worms from the wormery that I had in England. I had vermiculture to die for.

Regarding earning an income in France many people go down the gite route. Please be careful, we've had two lots of friends return to England because they couldn't get enough bookings and ran out of money and another two that are surviving because the wives are commuting back to England and Jersey. I read some where that if you are interested in starting a gite you should try to book a gite in the area of your choice...if they are mostly fully booked..then fine, if not you maybe need to think again. And people usually want gites with a pool.

However we also have friends that are doing very well in other area's. One runs an English stall at the weekly market selling books, video's, DVD's etc. Another has just got her siret number and will be selling jewelry. She had to do the obligatory business course, so she took along an interpreter. If your French is good acting as an interpreter is a possibilty. And one guy has started his own plumbing business and is out the door with work. All of them have their siret number. There has been a real crack down on people working on the black or employing people working on the black. Every time we have had work done to our property our Mairie has asked to see our Divvi. To make sure that we are not being over charged, but I don't doubt also to check we are using a legitimate artisan.

But it is worth trying to find away to live out here, even if you have to become a Tupperware rep!!!. If you have children the freedom they have is wonderful. We rarely lock our front door, the crime rate is so low. The health system is BRILLIANT. All this I guess you already know because you have a property.

The biggest problem with living in France is the amount of weight you put on because of all the lovely bread, cheese and wine, but I guess you know that too, which is why you want to come here!!!!.

Good luck.
Jill