Will biofuels power tomorrow's planes?

[ina]

I just can't believe this c***p....

Quote:

"Biofuels - principally ethanol and diesel made from plants - are one of the few viable options for replacing the liquid fuels derived from petroleum used in transport, the source of about one quarter of the human race's greenhouse gas emissions."


Viable? Where have the BBC lived the last few years?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7259004.stm

[marshlander]

Oh that's alright then; we can cut down what's left of the worlds forests to grown biofuels for planes too. Everything in the garden's hunky dorey and we can continue to fly all we like!

BTW why was they plane empty? did they really think it might crash?

[Chickenlady]

It is greenwash! Rich people flying as per usual while the poor have nowhere to grow food at a reasonable cost because all the land has gone to produce biofuel. Fantastic idea.

[Shirley]

Oh that's alright then; we can cut down what's left of the worlds forests to grown biofuels for planes too. Everything in the garden's hunky dorey and we can continue to fly all we like!

BTW why was they plane empty? did they really think it might crash?

Exactly my response... publicity stunt!!

[Martin]

read that the blithering idiot government is even coming round to realising biofuels are a con...........
About time Branson followed his ballooning mate on another expedition.........

[Mainer in Exile]

It is greenwash! Rich people flying as per usual while the poor have nowhere to grow food at a reasonable cost because all the land has gone to produce biofuel. Fantastic idea.

My question as well: Where are going to grow the food, when all the land is being used to grow fuel. And not just fuel - the factory in our town is getting ready to turn more fields into factory buildings. The town I live in wants to turn from an agricultural village to a factory/bedroom community. Fields are being converted to residential. Farmers are no longer allowed to keep live stock in town, are therefore forced to build livestock keeping stalls on former fields. It's all very short-sighted, IMHO.

[ina]

It's all very short-sighted, IMHO.

I blame politics for at least part of that - nobody thinks further than the next elections.

[Smooth Hound]

Unless people stop flying and stop driving big guzzlers, then new types of fuel need to be used, i have a feeling that the soldiers are getting abit sick of fighting and dying to secure more oil for us, It would be good if govt would legislate against people flying unless they can show it was necessary and other travelling methods could be used. But i have a strong feeling they would be voted out. Unless people can accept that they cant go around the world willy nilly and that it isnt there god given right to be able to drive a massive guzzler on the grounds that they work hard and because of that they can afford it, so stuff everyone else attitude. Then it is inevitable that the fuel has to come from somewhere and because we are using beyond our share then we are causing the suffering of poorpeople around the world , the govt of the day is reflecting our wants on the grounds that they would be voted out by us if they didnt.

In fact its not just the guzzlers , its all of us for subscribing to a greedy selfish system, and being only willing to make sacrifices that dont deprive us too much, but nothing more.

[Super.Niki]

I'm pretty sure I heard, and don't quote me on this becuase I COULD be wrong (doesn't happen that often! ) that there either is or was in development a fuel that was not only ethical but also didn't bust into flames as well as kerosene (making it a hell of a lot safer if a plane crashes, most of the time passengers die of flames/burning/smoke inhalation rather than from the crash it's self) and that it would be used to fuel planes but it's too expensive.... anyone know anymore on this or is that biofuel.... I get confused....

if only electric cars were half decent.... hmm....

[ina]

if only electric cars were half decent.... hmm....

But the electricity doesn't come out of thin air, either - in the end, it doesn't really matter what drives the car (or plane)!

[Martin]

look at the pig farmer's demos this week - THAT is what biofuels will do, but on an enormous scale - the poor will starve because of our selfishness in insisting on using air travel - there are other perfectly good ways of getting around - we MUST use them or the planet perishes - simple!
Thought for the day - if you loathe the idea of GM, biofuels are probably the biggest "lever" the gm lobby has.......take your pick!

[Knuckles]

Sorry, new to this posting links and what. I remembered seeing an article on jets and cooking oil so I googled 'em and found:

[url]http://ezinearticles.com/?A-Biodiesel-J ... &id=861231[/url]

...and one partially on palm oil...[url]http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=jum ... ght&sc=rss[/url]

I love this site.

[ina]

Hello, Knuckles, and welcome! Why not go to the "welcome" thread and tell us a bit about what you do?

[justskint]

Take a gander at this!

Joan Ruddock (Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs) | Hansard source

holding answer 18 December 2007

Final allocations for the Business Resource Efficiency and Waste (BREW) Programme are set out as follows:

£ million
Delivery body Budget 2005-06 Budget 2006-07
Action Sustainability 0 0.219
Carbon Trust 3 23.382
DEFRA's Waste Data Strategy 0.5 2.1
Environment Agency 2 4.454
Envirowise 12 16.772
Market Transformation Programme 2.65 2.8955
National Industrial Symbiosis Programme 2.675 5.7
Regional Development Agencies 5 11.71
Royal Society of Wildlife Trusts—Business Reuse Fund 0 2
Technology Strategy Board 2 5.654
WRAP 2.854 6.288
Other (includes coordination, communication, pilot projects, funding for agricultural waste project and programme contingency fund) 0.321 3.24
Total 33 84.415

BREW has also provided funding towards other business resource efficiency and waste activities in England, including £18.318 million in 2006-07 for the following:

Delivery body Activity 2006-07 funding (£ million)
Carbon Trust Energy efficiency and carbon emission reduction activities 13.618
WRAP Work with the construction, manufacturing, retail and recycling and reprocessing industries to reduce waste and encourage recycling 4.7
Total 18.318

These demonstrate that over the two year period from 2005 to 2007, at least £135 million of funding has been spent by DEFRA on business resource efficiency activities through the three years of the BREW programme.

[Mainer in Exile]

There is a good article on Townhall.com about ethanol, I think is worth a mention here.

The link is http://www.townhall.com/columnists/Walt ... ments=true

Walter Williams writes:

Ethanol is 20 to 30 percent less efficient than gasoline, making it more expensive per highway mile. It takes 450 pounds of corn to produce the ethanol to fill one SUV tank. That's enough corn to feed one person for a year. Plus, it takes more than one gallon of fossil fuel -- oil and natural gas -- to produce one gallon of ethanol. After all, corn must be grown, fertilized, harvested and trucked to ethanol producers -- all of which are fuel-using activities. And, it takes 1,700 gallons of water to produce one gallon of ethanol. On top of all this, if our total annual corn output were put to ethanol production, it would reduce gasoline consumption by 10 or 12 percent.

I knew that ethanol wasn't all our governments would like us to believe it is, but how really bad it is for the environment....

BTW, Walter Williams, as an economist, is usually more concerned about the economic impact of a proposal, rather than the environmental. Ethanol as fuel is equally bad for the economy and the environment.