Apple trees

[Peggy Sue]

Just got a second patch at the allotment and really want to do fruit.

I don't know much about apple trees but would really like a couple (one cooker one eater). We are only allowed dwarf varieties, how much space do I need to allow? Can I grow currents etc under them? What else could I grow under them (one allotment holder does marrows under his).

When I plant them my OH says I need to put blood,fish bone in not manure, but I have a horse and endless supply of free manure (in fact I have paid to feed him for this!) and hate to think of not using it wherever possible!!

Any advice about selecting, planting and companions welcome!

[Karen_D]

Hi Peggy

We have dwarf trees on our allotment - this is our first year. We chose Charles Ross and Golden Delicious (because they keep very well) for our varieties. There are some varieties of apple that are suitable for both cooking and eating - which is why we had the Charles Ross.

Spacing varies on how you are going to grow them. If you cordon or fan-train the trees they take up less space. You can also get what they call family apple trees that have more than one variety growing on them. These can be a bit expensive so if space isn't too tight I'd go for more than one tree.

One thing you will have to consider is the pollination groups of the trees. They don't all flower at the same time and you need to match them.

Have a look at the Keepers Nursery website.

http://www.keepers-nursery.co.uk/

They have a good search engine and tell you which trees will pollinate each other. They have a huge variety and lots of dwarf trees. Even if you don't order from them the cross-pollination info is very useful.

We are currently growing mostly herbs between our trees whilst they get established.

Wassail

Karen

[Peggy Sue]

Thanks Karen, I had a look round a local nursery and think I'll go one cooker one eater and match polination. Not sure what the trees ar nearby, we've only had the plot since June but there are 3 other apples in the next plot.

There is a bit of a debate about what to feed them. I'm a big fan of horse nanure (having a horse its free!) the nursery used manure but only rotted for 3 years 'until the straw and urine are gone'. Well I've laways used mine after six months or so since it's straight off the field so no straw or urine- any thoughts?

[Karen_D]

There is a bit of a debate about what to feed them. I'm a big fan of horse nanure (having a horse its free!) the nursery used manure but only rotted for 3 years 'until the straw and urine are gone'. Well I've laways used mine after six months or so since it's straight off the field so no straw or urine- any thoughts?

Most books recommend not feeding trees at planting time, unless the soil is very poor, as it could produce excessive soft growth rather than fruiting wood. So probably best not to manure when you are planting. They do like a good feed in the spring and a manure mulch is good for this but don't overdo it.

Wassail

Karen

[Peggy Sue]

I read 2 books that said bone, blood fish meal. I prefer my home made muck!
This man at the nursery also said I could dig the manure deeper than the tree so the roots could grow to it, so maybe that would happen in spring, and tie up with your advice?

[Millymollymandy]

Peggy Sue, I would put the muck in for the simple reason that fertiliser alone is not good enough when planting any kind of tree or shrub - you need to get compost or muck of some sort in to improve the soil structure and help retain moisture! However I wouldn't add extra fertiliser if you add 6 month old horse manure, least not the first year.

[Peggy Sue]

That sounds reasonable. The soil is pretty good being a long time allotment, but very well drained so at least teh muck will help retain a bit of moisture. I guess mulching may help too?

[Millymollymandy]

I don't think mulching will harm, though I did find with our semi rotted horse manure it does dry out to hard lumps on the surface, which is then not easy to wet again.

[frozenthunderbolt]

if you can then compost the manure first then dig it in underneath beofre you plant the tree. alsp, a word of warning, if you have wormed your horse recently then the broad spectrum vermifuge - (worm killer) is also fairly likely to knock off any earth wormis in that patch of ground - definitly not a good thing.
Composting first may help with this but i dont know - my worm killing evidence is only anecdotal . . .

[Peggy Sue]

Well I'd never thought of the worming thing! Thanks

[Millymollymandy]

Wombat's wormery was destroyed by putting in some horse muck from a horse that had been wormed. This also made me think twice about putting in the poo from the chooks after worming them too!

[Peggy Sue]

I wonder how long you have to leave it before it's OK to use- some of the new wormers are supposed to be active for 3 months. My compost heap seems to have lots of worms in it so looks like I haven't destroyed them yet...we wormed end August but I have no idea which poos will be soon after worming??

I did use herbal wormers for a while but then was told they are not as effective according to recent studies, you can't win here!

[Millymollymandy]

I guess the only way is to poo pick your paddock just before worming! I hope you haven't got a 5 hectare field!

[Peggy Sue]

well it's 3 1/2 acres so not normally poo picked to completion, just enough for the compost heap!