Want to be mentioned in our book?

[Andy Hamilton]

Right then! I need some help, I am about to start work on the livestock chapter and could do with some of your expert (or not so expert) knowledge.

I have devised a questionnaire that I can use in part in the book. It is not short at 22 questions. I think it covers pretty much what people who would like to keep livestock would want to know and will cover some topics for people who already do. It would be a great help for me it you could fill out the questionnaire below, replacing x with whatever animal you keep. In return for filling it out your name could be mentioned in the book (so please let me know your name and town).

If you feel like filling it out but don't want to be mentioned then please let me know.

If you are being very kind and filling out the questionnaire you can either copy and paste and post them below (changing the x to say the animal or just stating the animal(s) at the top, or email me them - andy at selfsufficientish dot com.

I am looking for people who keep ducks, goats, sheep, pigs, bees and chickens. Not going to mention cattle or any other animals as this should just about do.

Also please add anything else that you think is relevant.

Thanks again in advance - questions are below.

Live stock questions

1. What is the smallest amount of space that you need to keep X and still maintain good welfare standards and keep X happy?

2. Are there any legal requirements to keeping X forms to fill in, veterinary bills etc.

3. Is it possible to keep X in an urban garden?

4. How do you keep X from running/flying off your land?

5. What are the set up costs in keeping X?

6. What does it cost a week to keep X?

7. Have you had any trouble with the neighbours concerning keeping X?

8. How many X’s should you keep to keep X’s happy?

9. Which breeds should you avoid?
10. Which breeds are good for meat?
11. Which breeds are good for produce? (eggs, milk, wool, leather, honey)

12. What should you check when buying X? i.e. are there any warning signs for potential problems.

13. How much meat/produce can you get from X i.e. if you keep 5 hens and 1 cockerel will you have enough eggs for a family of 4? What about meat?

14. Is it easy to sell any surplus?

15. What problems have you come across with keeping X?

16. What joys are there in keeping X?

17. Do you have any funny anecdotes about keeping X?

18. Can you slaughter X your self if not then, how much does it cost to get them slaughtered?

19. Can you butcher X yourself?

20. Do you keep X organically and what difference does this mean in taste and cost?

21. Where can you get help and or advice in keeping X?

22. Have you had any dealings with Defra, what are they like to deal with?

[Millymollymandy]

Andy I would have been happy to tell you about keeping my chooks but I don't know most of the answers to the questionnaire!

[Bonniegirl]

I'd like to help too, except there are different regulations here in NZ!

[wulf]

I'd like to help too, except there are different regulations here in NZ!

That would probably be a useful point to mention, even if the book ends up being UK-centric. I am sure some copies will end up winging their way round the world and, as our online community shows, being selfsufficientish is a global concern.

Wulf

[Andy Hamilton]

Even if you only do some of the questions that is a big help.

Also the book will be published in Australia and New Zealand (I think) so any info from there will help too.

[Bonniegirl]

Oh ok!

I'll look into it at the weekend then and get back to you!

[Bonniegirl]

Oh ok!

I'll look into it at the weekend then and get back to you!

PS I may recruit some help on an NZ lifestyleblock forum if thats OK??


SO I'll need to cut and paste it!

[Andy Hamilton]

no, go ahead and copy away. Be sure to tell them that their answers might be used in the book though.

[Bonniegirl]

Hi Andy, I've mentioned it on the NZ forum so will hope to get some useful replies for you. I've also said that I will give them a link to this forum if they feel they can cover any other of the animals.

What is the latest you want the info collected by??

Annnnd can you please make this a sticky! I keep losing the darn thing!

It's probably already a sticky, it's an announcement I knwo, I just keep forgetting where it is! Bit fick ya see.


Ta very much chuck....................

[Bonniegirl]

Ok here we go my offering! A first draft that I might need to add to or edit or whatever. Tell me what you think:

Live stock questions

Keeping goats (from a New Zealand perspective)

1) Ideally a stocking rate of 6-10 goats per acre is ok providing you have good quality pasture and enough acreage to rotate them around different paddocks for worm control. If you only have 1 or 2 acres then obviously 6 – 10 will be far too many! I feel it’s always best to keep a minimum of 2 goats, they are after all herd animals and are much happier with company.

2) It is a legal requirement for goats to be kept confined within their owners property. Ideally they should be tagged with some kind of identification. There are no laws for goats regarding vaccinations etc. But a responsible owner would ensure that their goats are kept healthy by regular worming and vaccinations. You are legally required to care for that animal to be kept in a manner that ensures they have access to sufficient food, water, shelter and, where appropriate, adequate exercise.

3) Keeping a goat in an urban environment would depend entirely on the district’s own byelaws. However would that animal be cared for as mentioned as above? (2)

4) Goats have been known to get through fences. Good fencing is a must, ideally a nine wire post and batten fence with a hotwired outrigger is normally sufficient to keep them contained. And as already stated in (2) above you are legally required to keep them confined. Tethering is an option but purely from a welfare point of view not ideal. I have seen some pretty miserable tethered goats on the roadside here in New Zealand. They are also very vulnerable and open to all sorts of dangers and very often neglect.

5) Costs can vary hugely when setting up. It would depend a lot on your property and how the land is set out. For example, what type of fencing, what kind of pasture and what is the environment like? Many plants are toxic to goats, some pretty plants can kill a goat, such as rhododendron and lily bulbs. Once you have a safe and secure environment in which to place your goats, your next outlay would then be the goats themselves. Again prices can vary, it will depend on what type of breed and the purpose you want it to serve. Will it be a pet? Do you want a goat for its milk or its meat?

6) It’s quite difficult to work out the weekly cost of keeping goats. Again costs will vary. We feed our goats a grain mix and hay. They have access to good pasture all year round. There are the inevitable vet’s bills of course. Then there are the costs of worming treatments, vaccinations etc. These can be minimal of course, the initial outlay can be expensive but often things will last a long time, such as worming drenches and large bags of feed. We grow our own hay but we pay for it to be cut. We are lucky that we sell the excess which covers that cost. So if you were a mathematician and took all of the costs into consideration, and the number of goats, added it all up and divided by 52 weeks…then you would know how much per week they cost!

7) We’ve had no trouble with our goats and the neighbours, we have had one goat go for a visit to the neighbours. We are lucky that we have good neighbours, some people aren’t and some wouldn’t think twice about shooting a wayward goat. Maintain good fencing and this shouldn't become an issue. They can be noisy at times, but then so are many farm animals. It’s a bit of a fallacy moving to the country for some peace and quiet!!! It’s not quiet by any means, but it beats the sound of traffic and airport noise for example!

8) As already mentioned above, goats are a herd animal and are much happier with company. I would suggest keeping a minimum of 2 if possible. But they can and will survive on their own.

9) Breeds to avoid? I’m not sure there are any, each breed has their own characteristics and uses.

10) Boer goats are a good meat breed. They originate form South Africa and have been specifically bred for their meat. Goat meat is the most widely eaten meat in the world and is probably one of the healthiest. Having one of the lowest cholesterol levels. It tastes like lamb but is not as fatty.

11) Goats for milking, would be Saanens, Nubians, Alpines and toggenburgs.
Goats for wool would be Angoras

12) When buying any animal check out its history. How is its health, what vaccinations has it had etc, and why are they selling. Any good breeder will be more than happy to share this information with you. Ensure your property is suitable for goats and find out as much as you can about looking after your animal and it’s breed characteristics. It is not enough to buy a goat and forget about it. Be a responsible owner and ensure it is well fed & watered. Goats need regular worming, taking faecal samples to your vet will tell you if they have a problem so that you can treat as necessary. Goats feet need to be tended to regularly, this involves trimming of hooves and treatment of scald(fungal infection) or footrot. Take all these factors into consideration when buying.

13) A goat carcass would be comparable to a sheep carcass. So a full carcass in your freezer would last an average family for quite a while. The cuts of meat would be the same as a sheep too.

14) In New Zealand you are not legally allowed to sell ‘homekilled’ meat. If the animals were sent to slaughter then yes they would be easy to sell. Goat meat or ‘chevon’ is very popular.

15) So long as you have taken into consideration some of the above points then there really aren’t any problems with keeping goats. Just be aware of their health and well-being at all times.

16) The joys of keeping goats are endless. They are beautiful, intelligent friendly creatures and kids goats are a joy to watch. My goats are my hobby, we go to Agricultural and Pastoral shows and have had some success at showing our Boers. It’s an enjoyable day out where you get to meet new people and make new friends with a healthy bit of competition thrown in.

17) Probably my favourite story would be about Amber our soon to be 2 year old and first time mother. She was the third born of triplets and was a pathetic 1.8kgs when she was born, she was very ugly and looked more like a rat than a goat. Anyway I still fell in love with her and the breeder said I could take her home, but she would never be a show goat..as it happened she is and has done very well, she’s certainly the biggest show off! Anyway she was hand reared and didn’t take too kindly from moving from the sofa in the house to the paddocks!! She constantly challenges my husbands fencing abilities and probably always will. On one particular occasion my husband had to reinforce a fence as she was slipping underneath the bottom wire and getting into the garden and making a mad dash into the house and straight up on the sofa! He spent 2 hours on that fence with her watching on from the yards. He let her our to do an “Amber testâ€

[Andy Hamilton]

That brilliant, thank you Bonniegirl.

As for the time limit for completed ones I think anything I get after June 15th or so would be too late. SO still plenty of time.

Would you like me to call you bonniegirl in the book to reference you?

[Bonniegirl]

I don't know Andy! What do you think would be best? I'm quite happy for my real name to be used. But if you get more replies and the majority goes with their forum names, then I'll go with the flow!

[Andy Hamilton]

anyone else who can help with this, an answer to just one question would help. Would be good to make a start on the livestock chapter soonish.

[red]

ok done...

[Andy Hamilton]

ok done...

Thank you very much red.