Heritage seeds and plants

[Christopher]

I was going to post this several weeks ago before my keyboard gave up the ghost of Bill Gates and went wonky, then I went sailing for a week in our beautiful Hauraki Gulf (Kawau Island, Little Barrier, Great Barrier, Coromandel Penninsula, Waiheke Island), so this post is a little late... sorry.

It was interesting to read of people's tips about cheap gardening tools at their local mega-lomanic mall, but I got worried when people talked about cheap vegetable seedlings and fruit trees.

In my quest to be self-sufficientish, I've been trying to use heritage seeds and seedlings. Here in Auckland we are blessed with the presence of Koanga Garadens, set up by Kay Baxter, and based about 1.25 hours north of here. (see http://www.koanga.co.nz for further details)

This year I've grown a tomato variety called Ponsonby Red, in reference to one of Auckland's older inner-city suburbs. I figure if I use a tomato that comes from this area then it's likely to be suited to the kind of climate we have here over summer (hot, humid). And I've had a nice bumper crop of lovely heritage tomatoes.

So may I make a suggestion to all you lovely self-sufficienters in the UK - make an effort to look for heritage seeds and plants. That way you'll be preserving foods from the past, for the future. And they are more likely to succed than a fruit tree from your nearest mega-lomanic mall where it's likely to have been forced to bud and comes from GE root stock etc.

Cheers,
Christopher.

[Wombat]

Excellent point!

Nev

[the.fee.fairy]

It is very admirable that you try to use heritage varieties, but as i've pointed out in a different thread, sometimes, ecenomics is an issue.

It would be great to only grow the old varieties and have an old-style cottage garden with the original fruits and vegetables etc. in it, but i can't afford to do that, and im sure there are a lot of other people who can't.

As much as i'd love to go to independent growers and specialists for my stock, i just do not have the funds. yes, this does mean me going to a garden centre and picking up fruit bushes/veg seeds etc for a cheaper price, and it does run the risk of getting GE seeds, or hybridised rootstocks, but until i either earn a lot more, or win the lottery, its not going to happen.

[red]

sometimes things move on as well - I'm so old I can remember when gardeners delight ws a new fangled tomato - and then if you want to be pedantic - tomatoes are not native to UK at all - but introduced in 15something... and then of course, the ones first introduced were not very like tomatoes we know today.

I take your point tho - This year, as well as gd, and a plum tomato and a basket variety, I am also growing 'green sausage', a heritage variety - from last years packet. this variety can grow outdoors, but only produces sharp green tomatoes more akin to cucumber ..

[the.fee.fairy]

they sound interesting red. post pics and details when they've grown!

[contadino]

The economics get much easier if you can learn to save seed for each year to the next. Granted, heritage seeds are more difficult to find (in most countries I think) and more expensive, but if you save seed you needn't buy them year after year for annuals.

Also, pip growing can make a big difference. It takes time, but knock out a few saplings at your local boot fair for example, and you can quickly recoup the cost of that rare apple tree.

[red]

they sound interesting red. post pics and details when they've grown!

ok will do - I grew them outside last year - just sticking plants in the flower boarders where there were gaps, and forgot about them - when I came to harvets I picked pounds of them! - good for chutney and good in sarnies but you just have to accept they are not like tomatoes as we know them

here is a link to see picture

[hedgewizard]

It's probably best not to grow from apple pips - most apple trees are not grown on their own roots (in the UK at least) so the tree you'll get won't be a happy one. Most likely you'll get a standard apple (read: wanna be 25' high!) with an odd flavour.

Fee, I think seed saving is the way you want to go here. Once you get into that you'll quickly make contacts who do the same thing - I've just sent Trail of Tears 2006 beans off to Wales, for example, and been sent some Sweet Monk Squash 2005 from Essex - it's all free bar any postage or petrol and you'll find that heritage varieties will come to YOU.

There are plenty of sites out there to get you started, but if you need a head start give me a shout!

[Wombat]

That is one mighty fearsome avatar Hedgie!

I only buy open pollinated varieties from small scale producers by mailorder but sometimes seed saving is difficult due being unable to guarantee separation distances or just lack of space. Particularly with root crops, taking up space for two years. Having said that, yes there are lots of veggies where seed saving is a wonderful option - beans and peas are very easy and rewarding.

Here in Aus we get "Mr Fothergills" seeds, imported fresh for us all the way from the UK. Aaaaaaaaaarrrrgh! Kill!

Nev

[contadino]

Admittedly the apple may have been a poor example, but in reading Hedgewizzards reply it struck me that I forgot to mention grafting and propagation from cuttings.

Cuttings are easy to take, and I think most gardeners have probably tried. Grafting was always struck me as something out of science fiction films, but this year I grafted about 10 trees - converting them from either almond or cherry to plums, apricots, peaches, and different varieties of cherries. Most of them seem to have taken (With one notable exception where the new puppy put her Evil hat on and chewed the grafts off )

So back to the apple example, take a quince pip. Grow it into a sapling, and then graft your heritage variety onto it.

P.S. Do apples grown from pips really taste different? I knew they grew big trees, but have never heard that the taste is different.

[red]

P.S. Do apples grown from pips really taste different? I knew they grew big trees, but have never heard that the taste is different.

some are infertile, and those that will produce viable pips, wont necessarily be the exact same apple - it depends what it crossed with - and those bees are not fussy about type.. to them and apple blossom is an apple blossom!

same as other seeds - I have found baby tomatoe plants growing in my greenhosue before - self sown from fallen tomatoes from the previous year - and they worked out - but the tomatoes were neither gd or the inca plum i grow. seed saving only really works if yo only have one variety.

I only grew one kind of pumpkin last year, but have been told that they can cross with other squahses - and as I was also growing vegetable spagetti and courgettes - I'm not sure what the seed will produce (might find out)

[contadino]

Oh dear, I'll consign my pip project to the compost heap then.

So unlike last year, the quince trees are covered in blossom. Quince is the usual rootstock for apples here. If I raise quinces from pip, and then graft from other (shop-bought) apple trees, will I get apple the same as the shop-bought one?

And how do self-fertile varieties play into this gene-pool? Self-fertile means insects are still needed to fertilise, just that they need not fly between trees to do so? Wow. Hats off to Mother Nature. Can fruit on self-fertile trees be fertilised by pollen from other trees? Sorry. Gotta stop now. Head is spinning.

[the.fee.fairy]

Ooh, i do seed save!

I also seed swap, so there are chances of getting heritage varieties.
I meant for the beginner - economics is often the one factor that it all comes down to when starting to plant. That was definitely the case for me.

[hedgewizard]

Oh dear, I'll consign my pip project to the compost heap then.

So unlike last year, the quince trees are covered in blossom. Quince is the usual rootstock for apples here. If I raise quinces from pip, and then graft from other (shop-bought) apple trees, will I get apple the same as the shop-bought one?

Yep, it'll work fine.

And how do self-fertile varieties play into this gene-pool? Self-fertile means insects are still needed to fertilise, just that they need not fly between trees to do so? Wow. Hats off to Mother Nature. Can fruit on self-fertile trees be fertilised by pollen from other trees? Sorry. Gotta stop now. Head is spinning.

If I understand it correctly, self-fertile varieties have been bred to have male and female flowers out at the same time whereas with most varieties that's not the case. They can still be pollinated from other sources (and apparently fruit better if so) but don't need to be.