Road Charging

[mew]

Given the big debate over this at the moment I thought I'd give you my thoughts on it and tell me what you reckon.

Im in favour of road charging, as long as the money raised goes into better and cheaper public transport.

Pricing people out of their cars is surely of benefit to nearly everyone.

-Those who continue to drive have no congestion and so get value for money.
-Car share scheme would become a norm everywhere.
-Buses and trains have to run more services, more frequently and have to improve due to public demand and become cheaper due to the economies of scale and subsidy.
-Those who buy bicycles (inc. subsidy) would benefit from fewer cars on the road and get fitter, as do those who walk.
-Everyone would have cleaner air to breath especially if buses took to cleaner forms of fuel which would be practical with subsidy and scale of use.

Ultimately if we have any real hope of getting CO2 reduction this policy is a must as well as taking on aviation [url]http://www.planestupid.com[/url]

So if you agree with road charging and the above then vote [url]http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/TRACK-CARS[/url]

Or if you don't and you want to add your name to the 1.5million + that have already told Blair where to shuv this policy vote [url]http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax[/url] although he's already said he'll probably ignore you anyway, hopefully

[Martin]

road pricing is another silly idea - the technology involved will cost billions, the earth's resources even more, and is a "spy in the car", none of which we want or need..........
Forget the hitech rubbish, the otherwise unemployable who'd be implementing it, and just bung more on fuel duty!

[9ball]

I agree Martin, fuel duty is a much simpler way of taxing vehicles per mile, it also places a heavier tax on the less efficient cars. One of the proposed benefits of road pricing as opposed to fuel duty is that the more congested areas can be targeted and micro-managed, although I feel the money it would take to implement road pricing would be far better spent on improving transport infrastructure / public transport etc.
The part of road pricing that worries me is that it seems the government are moving from taxing fuel to taxing congestion, the high price of fuel duty and the enormous amount of money the government brings in from it is excused as they are supposedly taxing the environmental effect of the petrol. By moving towards road pricing the government seem to be covering their backs by creating a new revenue stream for when green sources power our transport which they could not get away with taxing so highly.

[mew]

Good point people!

I never really thought of it like that. My only concern is that by raising fuel duty people will use the greener fuels with less duty and the rise of the motor car will continue, meanwhile we run out of land to grow the crops needed for biofuels!

At least road charging encourages less car use, fuel duty increase may well do some of the same but would probably mean a move from big engined cars to small engined cars. 40 people drving alone in little cars pollute more than 40 on a modern bus!

Ultimately its all a load of rubbish if they just introduced a carbon quota system that covered motor fuel, gas , electricity, food and aviation, we could give people the choice where they used their carbon while still maintaining a cap. Im sure this would be a whole lot cheaper than road charging.

[Thomzo]

Hi
There was debate about this on BBC breakfast this morning. Apparently Tony Blair is going to e-mail each and every person who signed the petition against it and tell us what a good idea it is

I am basically for being charged per mile but we already get this in the fuel tax. Why waste all the money on developing a satellite charging system? As you guys said, more inefficient vehicles pay more under the fuel tax. Also, you use more fuel when you are stuck in traffic so you are already paying a congestion charge of sorts.

Also mentioned this morning was the big brother aspect of all this. I have nothing to hide so I don't really care who knows where I've been. What really worries me is what happens when unscrupulous people hack into the system or steal the code of my box/transmitter/whatever. How will I be able to prove that it wasn't me? Also burglers could access the system to find out when you are away from home or even worse to find out when lone women are driving in isolated places.

At the moment, overseas visitors visiting the UK pay tax when they buy fuel. Under the new system, how will they be charged? Or will the rest of us end up paying for them as well? If they all have to buy boxes/transmitters etc will it put them off coming to the UK?

My real gripe, however, is with the state of public transport in the UK. I would love to leave my car at home. I only live about 2 miles from the office. Cycling is out as I have a balance problem but I could easily get a bus - oh except that there are no buses that go anywhere near where I work from anywhere near where I live!! I would happily walk. Except that there are no pavements! I would either have to walk in the busy main road or on the muddy verges.

Just recently there were a lot of problems in the South West with the trains. Commuters ended up protesting on the stations and "going on strike" to get something done about cancelled trains and overcrowded carriages. It's all very well for government ministers to sit in their ivory tower in London and say that we should all walk or use public transport but they should get out into the real world and see just how difficult it is. Last year a minister came to Bristol to talk about public transport. How did he get there? BY CAR!

Sorry to have a rant but this really winds me up.

End of rant
Zoe

[pskipper]

I'm against this, I have no public transport options, I can't afford to live within walking/cycling distance of my place of work as London commuters have driven the prices up ridiculously.

I get paid a low wage for a professional because I am working at a government site, if they bring this in at the rates they were talking about originally I won't be able to afford to get to work!

[Annpan]

What if...

To get into any city you literally had to stop at a tollbooth to pay a congestion fee, then the local authority uses this fee to fund free public transport for all

People would have to queue for hours to pay the toll, or they'd not bother to take the car (unless it was a nessecity) and they would take the bus or train or walk.

Why have I got a funny feeling that just wouldn't catch on.


Annpan

[Millymollymandy]

I love toll motorways in France - they are (mostly) so empty it is a real pleasure to use them. I'm very happy to pay to go on them.

I remember when I lived in Sydney there was a lane which cars with single occupants were not allowed to use - thus encouraging people to double up and give people lifts.

[Martin]

I think this scheme is indicative of the fact that the government "just doesn't get the green message".........
Their knee-jerk reaction every time is a stock answer - a scheme that will involve even more civil servants, and most frighteningly, an enormous amount of extra goods being manufactured and used - it is a "space pen solution" we need "pencil" solutions!
(the urban myth is told that during the space race, the Americans decided that astronauts needed to write in zero gravity in space, so spent several million dollars in developing "space pens" - the Russians, faced with the same problem, shrugged their shoulders and used pencils!)

[Muddypause]

[Cough, a-hem!]

[Martin]

there may be the odd terminological inexactitude, but it makes the point!

[Millymollymandy]

I've got one of those pens! But I don't write upside down, or in space!

[wulf]

Pricing people out of their cars is surely of benefit to nearly everyone.

Mainly to the rich, who can afford whatever fees are put on driving and will be rewarded with much emptier roads to speed down in their gas-guzzling vehicles.

I think some of the alternative ideas mentioned, like perhaps tolls to enter congested areas, would work better than the mammoth IT project suggested to track every car in the UK. As long as the planned inconveniece is balanced by corresponding improvements in the convenience of public transport, that could be a winner.

The road tax scheme, as proposed, seems less about reducing car use as just sucking more money out of people; woefully inefficienct and not a model of sustainable living.

Wulf

[Thomzo]

Has anybody who signed the petition had their response back from the PM yet? I certainly haven't.

[Martin]

I have! - patronising git!