A world without money

[Andy Hamilton]

I get quite a few emails from the general public who don't turn up on here. I got quite a strange one today and I am unsure of how to anwser it. I hope that he does not mind me putting it up here for discussion and I hope that someone can help with a response.

Yes, dear Andy Hamilton, I am fully in support of your
selfsufficientish site and its tasks, but personally I'd want to see you go one whole
step further ahead!

But let me first of all introduce myself to you in a few words. I am by
birth a German, my name is Erhard Lang, my age is 50 and I've been
living in the south-east of the Philippine island of Mindanao for some 18
years.
I have been into western and, more so, into eastern philosophy, and at
one point in time, to a certain extent, into hinduistic ritualism.
Generally one could say I'm a kind of old-school hipster who has gone
his own way.

And I do write poems. Now I'm getting back to the point I wanted to
make in writing to you as a member of the Compact group, since many of my
poems deal with the matter of the subject I'd like to propose to you:

I would want you guys to reflect in all seriousness on the necessity
and feasibility of ABOLISHING MONEY, yes of abolishing money, in which I
personally very strongly believe.

Now, if you wonder whether the money system could ever be abolished,
I'd say, yes, it can be! I have given much thought to this subject and
laid out in detail my ideas on a new 'panvoluntaristic' market system on
the home page of my one poetry site that you might find at

http://poetrypoem.com/globeofdivinehope/

My poems, some of which also deal with abolishing money, you'll find at

http://www.poemhunter.com/erhard-hans-josef-lang/poems

Hoping you'd be in support of a new world without money

art

[Muddypause]

Teehee. I looked up the Compact group on Google and found this.

There is a deeply glorious irony to find that this is a group of people who reject consumerism, and then to read of "...one of the members of the fledgling movement, John Perry, who works in marketing".

[Andy Hamilton]

Well then I guess it makes it easier to give up money if you have already bought the consumerables that you need to. I also wondered about his website, surley he has to pay for the domain miond you I it is free then he is contributing to a site where someone else pays. Anyway thats nit picking, I love the ideal about it but are these people just being tight and will they end up with massive savings. Their earnt money would have to go to a chaity to be truley anti captalist, perhaps I will ask him that.

[9ball]

An interesting website, with an interesting arguement, but a lot of holes in it. It would be fantastic for everyone to muck in and create the 'panvolunteerist' eutopia, but sadly there would be a lot of people who just won't volunteer. In all honesty if everything was free I wouldn't bother working, and I think a large proportion of people rationally wouldn't bother either so the whole thing would crumble. So if people aren't volunteering to create this stuff there would need to be some sort of incentive or punishment to get people to help, it's the whole carrot and stick thing. The stick is something I'm sure we all wouldn't want (who the hell weilds the stick would be another thing entirely) so we're left with a big dangly (organicly grown, of course) carrot to get people to help, and I assume that people would get a share of the goods available depending on how much work they have put in volunteering - which is money in all but name.
Old fasioned barter economies in small communities would be the best way forwards (or backwards) to living without money, and it sounds pretty good to me.

Tom

[Andy Hamilton]

An interesting website, with an interesting arguement, but a lot of holes in it. It would be fantastic for everyone to muck in and create the 'panvolunteerist' eutopia, but sadly there would be a lot of people who just won't volunteer. In all honesty if everything was free I wouldn't bother working, and I think a large proportion of people rationally wouldn't bother either so the whole thing would crumble. So if people aren't volunteering to create this stuff there would need to be some sort of incentive or punishment to get people to help, it's the whole carrot and stick thing. The stick is something I'm sure we all wouldn't want (who the hell weilds the stick would be another thing entirely) so we're left with a big dangly (organicly grown, of course) carrot to get people to help, and I assume that people would get a share of the goods available depending on how much work they have put in volunteering - which is money in all but name.
Old fasioned barter economies in small communities would be the best way forwards (or backwards) to living without money, and it sounds pretty good to me.

Tom

Similar reservations as I have by the sounds of things. The barter system is something that you end up doing with an allotment, although it would help if not everyone grew the same "swap you a corgette for a marrow".

This has holes as well, what if for whatever reason no one has a good harvest one year? I guess everyone would just starve.

[Muddypause]

I actually think there are two different ideas here. The OP is suggesting doing away with money altogether. The Compact group seem to be addressing out-of-control consumerism, which many of us here have expressed concerns about; "...consumer culture is destroying the world" is not someing I am out of symapthy with.

But a world without money? Why? How?

people would get a share of the goods available depending on how much work they have put in volunteering - which is money in all but name.

Exactly. In fact I would say the same about barter, really.

The most misquoted, misused line in the English language must be "Money is the root of all evil". This chap has misquoted it, too. It's actually a line from the bible - 1 Timothy 6:10 - and is nearly always quoted incorrectly. The line is "Love of money is the root of all evil" (sometimes translated as "Desire for money is the root of all evil").

The difference that that one word makes is profound. Instead of off-loading responsibility for wrong-doing onto some inate evil within money, we have to accept that responsibility ourselves. It is not money that makes things all go wrong, it is us; our greed, our avarice, our cupidity. I can't see that abolishing money would eliminate that.

[Tay]

Wow. Thanks for that, Stonehead. I've learnt a few things; I suppose all of us should have a better understanding about money and the economy.

Just to show my complete ignorance of all financial things, could someone please explain what inflation actually is?

[Tay]

Am I talking to myself, or has Stonehead just deleted his post?

[9ball]

Tay,

Inflation is basically the amount prices of goods and services are rising. So if inflation is at 5%, on average things will be 5% more expensive than they were a year ago.

Tom

[Tay]

Thank you. I assumed that's pretty much what it was, but wasn't sure.

[red]

Am I talking to myself, or has Stonehead just deleted his post?

it's ok - I saw it too - not a figment of your imagination

[Wombat]

If I remember my highschool economics - inflation is an increase in the circular flow of money without a corresponding increase in the flow of goods and services.

I was going to put something in myself about that quote, but Muddy did it for me, thanks stew!

I like 9balls spelling of the word utopia as eutopia - the Eu bit is from the greek and means "hidden", it is a very applicable change and should go into common usage!

Nev