Solar V Wind

[Ireland-or-bust]

All,

I'm thinking of splashing out a few quid on a renewable energy source.
I've read the skinny on the wind turbines sq meterage etc.

I think a combo might be the way forward.

However i don't have combo money.

My lighting circuit is VERY low load, as teh whole house is on
either energy saving floresents or LED lights, whichj i am awaiting in the post.

My total lighting for the house is 44.6w so is ideal for switching to batteries. charged by solar/wind.

I know that i'll never see that money back again but i would still like to do it. Because my lighting is so low it will take a lifetime to recoup the costs.

Any ideas what i can do?

I'm aiming at hundreds not thousands.....


Mark.

PS I live in the middle of nowhere and don't care much for planning offices. So don't worry about that element.

[Muddypause]

That's a seriously impressive lighting requirement, Mark.

It'll probably make a difference to what you do if all the lights are low voltage stuff, or if they are a mixture. If they are all low voltage, it'll probably be much easier to rig up a rechargeable system. But remember that a low voltage system will be affected more by having long wiring distances (thick wires will help offset this).

Here are a few examples of solar cells. I doubt Maplins are going to be the cheapest source, though. For a wind turbine as small as that, Martin may have some contacts, or maybe a chandlery supplier (probably expesive) may give you some ideas.

[Martin]

the important thing is how much current you'll need to draw - with only 44w, it probably won't be a lot, but what you need to do is try to work out some rough figures of how it averages out over a period. :
To give you a rough idea of systems and costs, I've racked my brains, and come up with a "suggestion" for a system - which should be reasonably inexpensive, reliable, and "do what it says on the tin"
If you're going for 12v, I'd go for a Rutland 913 and HRDX controller, with a cheapie mast kit - in the UK that would be around £700 all-in. I suggest the HRDX controller because it is a bit of a swiss army knife in it's abilities - it can feed one or two battery banks, it gives a good choice of readouts on the display, so you know what's going on, it regulates the charge from the turbine, AND there's ample capacity to add up to 100 watts of solar to it as well. (If you buy umpteen charge control units/dump load controllers/ dump loads, they can cost a fortune - the HRDX does the lot!). Then you'll need batteries - ideally 4x110 amp hour batteries at around £50 a pop (deep cycle, NOT car batteries!)
So for around £900, you've got a good reliable "starter system" to which you could add some solar panels later (our price for a 55watt panel is £210, 20watts - £73):dave:
Hope that helps!

[Martin]

- to estimate your needs, say you end up with 6 x 6w lights - work out how many hours you need them on for in an average day - in winter you may have the lot on for say 5 hours - just multiply the lot together - 6x6x5 = 180watts/day - then divide that by the battery voltage (12) - 15 amp hours per day - so using the "10%" rule, you'll need an absolute minimum battery bank of 150 amp/hr capacity......

[marknemm]

Hello.
I just stumbled across this forum.
I replaced an old rutland 913 with a samray wren on my boat last year. From my experience with the different machines, the samray wren is by far the better choice. Its quieter and lighter although it would be better looking with a nose cone but the manufacturer say they will be adding one purely for good looks.
With a bit of luck, I plan to install one of the bigger samray turbines along with some solar hot water panels at my home later this year.

thanks,
mark

[marknemm]

spelling mistake. It should be samrey, not samray.

thanks,
mark

[camillitech]

Hello.
I just stumbled across this forum.
I replaced an old rutland 913 with a samray wren on my boat last year. From my experience with the different machines, the samray wren is by far the better choice. Its quieter and lighter although it would be better looking with a nose cone but the manufacturer say they will be adding one purely for good looks.
With a bit of luck, I plan to install one of the bigger samray turbines along with some solar hot water panels at my home later this year.

thanks,
mark

i'll 2nd that, after 18 or so years of patching rutlands up (because there was nothing else available) i do like the look of the samray (though time will tell if they're any good )

[Martin]

We sell Samreys too - I've got one in my back garden! The reason I went for the Rutland was purely because of the controller - for £150, it is really capable, particularly applicable for the later addition of pv panels, and as the 913 is designed and matched to it, it seemed logical to go for the Rutland "full set"
Do bear in mind that many people know the "old" 50 watt 913s, they now produce around 80 watts!

[marknemm]

My wren system was supplied with a small controller that can take upto 30amps of input. It also automatically switches between 12 and 24v which is handy as I sometimes use the system to car individual batteries. My system is currently running at 24v, so I can add around 250watts of PV in addition to the turbine to the same controller. It doesn't use dump loads unless they are in the box which is pretty small so I doubt it.
It only cost me about 75 quid ontop of the price of the turbine which cost me 400 quid. They did offer me a controller with a fancy LCD screen but that was slightly more expensive. Instead its just got some LED's.

I have run a few turbines on my boat including some LVm aerogens. I bought my Rutland 913 new about a year ago but it was a little lack lustre so I sold it on ebay. I replaced it with a wren in october. The 913 was a bit plasticy and cheap but the only plastic parts on the wren are the blades, everything else looks like its made from armour plate :-). I am very impressed with this little turbine so far.

Anybody know which is better: evacuated tubes or flat panel hot water panels?
I've read that tubes are more efficient but an friend of mine has had no end of trouble with them breaking. Flat panels seem more reliable and possible cheaper?
Whats the best option?

thanks,
Mark

[Martin]

A fellow installer was worried about the strength of the vacuum tubes which we fit, so he put one in a frame, and bounced a leather football off it several times from a distance of around 15' - upon which it thrived! They are also designed to withstand large hailstones. In our experience, once they're mounted, they are incredibly tough - most breakages occur during installation, usually due to inexperienced fitters!

[marknemm]

i think the problems have occured with the vacuum in the tube failing, rather than the tube itself physically breaking.
Something to do with seals i guess?

thx,
mark

[Martin]

like all vacuum vessels, there's a "tit" of glass on the "bottom" where the vacuum is sealed in, which is rather vulnerable until it's firmly clamped in the frame - when mounted, a neoprene cap covers it, and it is held firmly with a stainless steel Jubilee clip. According to our suppliers ALL breakages have been due to mishandling, or overtightening of the clips.
The tubes are made of borosilicate glass (Pyrex) which is very tough
ps flat plate collectors are ludicrously expensive in comparison, particularly bearing in mind the simplicity of their construction!

[red]

We sell Samreys too - I've got one in my back garden! The reason I went for the Rutland was purely because of the controller - for £150, it is really capable, particularly applicable for the later addition of pv panels, and as the 913 is designed and matched to it, it seemed logical to go for the Rutland "full set"
Do bear in mind that many people know the "old" 50 watt 913s, they now produce around 80 watts!

this is all really useful info - so thanks for that.
We are contemplating a 12v lighting system.. if only for part of the house, as A it needs rewiring anyway and B this is a period property, so current regs on chasing wires through lath and paster or granite walls is a bit of a nightmare and you can bypass the regs with a 12v system, and C saving the planet an all that.

your samrey in your back garden - is it noisy? did you need pp? what do you use it for?

[Martin]

The Samrey in the garden is around 35' from my back door, and I can honestly say that it is uncannily quiet! - Even standing underneath it when it's whacking round, you have to look up to check it's turning! It isn't completely silent - but the most you hear is a very polite "fuffle" from the blades when windspeed/direction changes (totally inaudible indoors)
At the moment it's on a temporary 20' tower, the same one we took to the BGG - it seemed daft to leave it stored until the next festival season, so I bunged it up where it is, and am using it to keep our caravan/demonstration batteries charged!
It is sited in probably one of the worst positions for a wind turbine (apart from on a roof!), and not one I'd recommend! - ~The NOABL database mean windspeed is only 4.5m/s for this site, and it's surrounded by tall trees on three and a half sides!!!!!!!!
Planning consent?????????...........well, I've taken a pragmatic approach - I asked my neighbours if they had any objections, as they didn't, I went ahead! It is one of those "grey" areas of the law - one school of thought says that a small turbine on a temporary mount doesn't need it (it's like a shed, a temporary structure) - if you consult your local planners, they'll try to extract a large fee for planning - most of them haven't the first bally clue about turbines themselves, and will soak you needlessly!
I waded through a recently issued ~"code of best practice for wind turbines" issued by EST - in it they say that any turbine with over 2 metres diameter rotors will need consent - the Wren is half that!

[welshphil]

I will also 2nd the thumbs up for the samrey kit. One of my neighbours has their bigger turbines on test so I get to see the samrey guys quite regularly (its nice speaking to someone who knows the technicalities of these things instead of just the sales pitch).
Last time I saw the engineers they were working on a datalogger on the turbine that updated live to a website to monitor the performance.
The turbine is a little different from the norm, but it looks good and performs well by all accounts.

Cheers,
Phil