Advice - what do you look for in a holiday?

[Martin]

to my mind, it goes hand in hand with an apathetic public - we do actually possess the power to change things - mass public disobedience etc., but noone's got the nerve anymore - they're mostly sheep, heading for slaughter!

[titch7069]

WHOA! is your computer permanently on? my original Q still stands IF this is something you would do - i think we know you wouldn't by now!

[Pilsbury]

I guess none of you are coming to Mafia then?!!!! Sad too, when you realize that this is the poorest and most forgotten part of east africa it missed out on all the develpment cash and the only way of getting cash in is thru tourism. but i guess being right is the only way forward for some. a blinkered viewpoint makes for selfrightousness, but doesn't actually feed people, Not one person answered the actual question, many soap boxes were mounted however........

My apologies titch, I got side tracked but have gone back and read the question again,
Yes i think that being able to be some benifit to the local community and ecology in places such as mafia would influence me to travel there.
My brother recently went on a company sponsered rugby tour of south africa and although they did play lots of rugby but also spent a day rebuilding and decorating a local orphanage and another day helping to dig a well for a village.
I do think that working holidays are only for a perticular group of people though but if they can be attracted and have a good time they can send more like minded people to help and enjoy relativly unspoiled areas, the problem that brings is that the areas tend to become more for the tourists and less for the locals.

[Martin]

ho hum! - at risk of being as popular as a pork chop at a bar mitzvah!
- to fly anywhere will immediately wipe out any "good" the scheme will do - as such, can people not travel there by sane methods?
No soapbox - pleasure flying should not be encouraged - simple as that!
What is the point of "saving" the local economy if by doing so, you are hastening the end of civilised life altogether?

[Pilsbury]

but when we converted our van, and went off on a 'grand tour' at home - UK, found that there are fantastic things to see right here. We also go to a fair number of festivals.

I quite agree one of the best holidays i have ever had was 2 weeks in a camper with my parents traveling up the east coast, got as far as robin hood bay and whitby as well as many other places.
a couple of problems with that at the moment is i cant affort to run 2 cars (1 Camper) and the other is I am the only driver in the house so not to much of a holiday for me if i am driving 5 hours a day.
as for staying at home and pottering i love it as much as the next but i do that every weekend and normally for the other 3 weeks holiday i get from work, for that last week i like to go away form all the phone calls, the bills, the driving , and everyuthnig else.
For 1 week i like to lay in the sun and not think about anything to heavy.

[Muddypause]

Not one person answered the actual question, many soap boxes were mounted however........

I think that's a little disingenuous, Titch. There were several answers to your question. They might not have been the answers you wanted, and they might have included all sorts of things that were tangential, but that's the nature of these sorts of forums - actually, it's the sole reason they exist. No one is obliged to give any particular answer, and there is no cause for upset if you don't get what you were hoping for.

Have to say, I thought your original question was rhetorical; that you were asking what we would do if we were you. As it happenes, I was just working up an answer, but it seems a little superfluous now. We can't actually make your decisions for you, but we can reflect upon our particular take of the issue.

I hear your comments about lack of development funds, but when I see what 'development' means here, with a busy main road ten feet from my bed, and factories beyond, I have to wonder if it is really desireable at all. Hungry mouths are often the result of a cash-crop economy that panders to the 'developed' world at the expense of local needs. It is our development that has caused these problems, so maybe the sustainable way out of it is not to perpetuate it. Development, it seems, is inextricably linked to pollution, disruption, wars, poisoned rivers, over fishing, drug misuse, waste disposal problems, poverty, resource depletion, fractious societies, traffic chaos, antisocial behaviour, exploitation, inequity, an unsustainable population... Not all of these problems manifest themselves in the country that causes them - a developed economy is very good at exporting its problems.

You're not going to get all the answers to your society's problems from a web forum, but you will get a few legitimate, if unhelpful, reflections.

[Pilsbury]

ho hum! - at risk of being as popular as a pork chop at a bar mitzvah!
- to fly anywhere will immediately wipe out any "good" the scheme will do - as such, can people not travel there by sane methods?
No soapbox - pleasure flying should not be encouraged - simple as that!
What is the point of "saving" the local economy if by doing so, you are hastening the end of civilised life altogether?

I guess emergency food and medical drops also cause more harm than good in in your view, i guess if the people cant grow enough food to suport their families then they should not have andy children and a plauge outbreak is gods way of pointing out there are to many people in the area for the local sanitation to cope with???

There are sometimes more imediate needs than long term solutions can cover, sure the world is more messed up than people realise but just like surgery sometimes we have to do more damage in the short term to make it better in the long term.

[titch7069]

20 years ago there was a farm where i live and a 5 others plus 10 cocnut plantations, the ngos pulled out and people have been subsistence farming and during the many droughts - starving and dying. sustainable tourism is one of their few options - we have entered into a local partnership where we put upm the money take the risk and 55% of profit goes into local projects - that they administer. when we go to the mainland we go by dhow but can'texpect tourists to do the same.

[Martin]

personally, I can't see pleasure flying as indispensible - there may well be justification for emergency flights.
I've got no problem with you helping your countrymen out - but it seems daft to do colossal damage to the earth to achieve it - to help them help themselves to a sustainable life is one thing, but just "opening up another market" just makes things worse. If you could put together " a once in a lifetime trip" that involved sail and train travel, and then used any funds generated to help the locals to help themselves to live in a sustainable way, I could see the the good in it!

[titch7069]

in fact martin the only opinion you hammered home is that yours is the only correct morally valid one - which is bollocks, opinions are like arseholes everyone has one - even me and on one level i agree with you however i wasn't debating airflight alone you got on your soapbox and shouted anyone down who disagreed with you - i wanted opinions on the WHOLE experience, we've heard the one on air flight, how about the rest of the question?

[Muddypause]

Strewth, Martin, ya reckon you can field this one? I was just writing a post supporting your position, but I think I'll just sneak off somewhere quiet.

[titch7069]

ok lets cut to the chase... aside from the flying issue, which i agree is valid, is sustainable tourism better than regular tourism, should it be encouraged, bearing in mind its the next step and that Martins extemely valid opinion of using train and sail could be next ............in about 20 years, there is no train travel through tanzania from the north as no track yet

[Martin]

I'm sorry if I was rather blunt!. To do whatever you're doing in a sustainable way has got to be good!
As you are aware of the problems with air travel, is there any way that you could minimise it? - sea, rail, and the last hop by air?. I would think that "distance can lend enchantment" could be a selling point -make it a "6 or 7 weeks away" trip that incorporates a week of travel either end of the holiday - a real "life-changing trip"!

[Pilsbury]

Martin, glad you are rich enough to take 6 weeks of work to do 1 week of good turns for people less forutunate and who might die of starvation if they dont get any help unlike the rest of us who can just about manage to squeeze in a package holiday in the sun and give a donation to oxfam.
Nice to see you are opperating in the real world you care so much for.

[Martin]

well............as someone who doesn't fly (ever), and who's holiday for the last few years has been either a few days at the Glastonbury Festival, or the Big Green Gathering, I'm stuffed if I could afford a 6-week holiday.(either monetarily or from family commitments).........
BUT, there are a lot of well-heeled people who can, and do take long holidays - if you want to make an eco resort miles from nowhere, cater for them, not the "mass market", then you have less travelling to and from it, and if you made it as eco-friendly as possible..........
I'm trying to be helpful - I think I owe him that for my forthrightness!