There are times I despair................

[Martin]

here is an article about a family who are really pleased with their chocolate teapot! - now this is supposedly owned by one of the UKs elite - a GP, worth 100,000 of our hard-earned quid a year! (seems justification for my using alternative therapies!)
http://www.stamfordtoday.co.uk/ViewArti ... ID=1909192 - it'll obviously payback really fast at around 18 quid return per annum (less the 5 quid a year to run the inverter), and they are PLEASED!!!!!!!
We are talking over a 100 years payback!!!!!!!!!

[Shirley]

I think that's rather harsh Martin.

A GP knows about medicine but is not necessarily informed about other things.... and the Windsave IS well marketed. If it weren't for this site I wouldn't know so much about their bad points. I would have done some research about them though, right enough.

I was chatting to some friends the other day and they were talking about them - I pointed them in this direction

[PurpleDragon]

Well, yeah, I can see your point ... but ... they are trying.

At the risk of stereotyping anyone, they are a professional family of four in a 5-bedroom house, and they aren't short a few quid. A lot of folk that I know who are in this type of social bracket would be moaning because their wheelie-bin only gets emptied once a week, not being proud because theirs is 1/4 full.

They are trying to save water, are composting and recycling, so you have to give them their due.

Unfortunately, people believe what they read in the papers and they are of the belief that this is an investment for the future.

So, I say cut them a break. They'll need all the help they can get when their foundations start coming up thru the floor.

[PurpleDragon]

I was chatting to some friends the other day and they were talking about them - I pointed them in this direction

My Mum was going on about them the other day, praising them. I explained the things I had learned here, and she was rather surprised to say the least. Her comment? "Well, I didn't think they would be allowed to sell them if they did that"

[Martin]

I'm gratified to see that I'm no longer a lone voice - "Newsnight" has picked up on it, mainly due to the efforts of the much-maligned Justin Rowlatt
(see his blog!), and many national newspapers are running with the story!
I'll stick to my guns - they are a heartless con, aimed at prising money out of well-meaning people - they not only "don't do what they say on the tin", but are in fact a dreadful waste of energy in making the damned things - the world would be better off without them altogether!

[Shirley]

I'm not saying that they are good - your knowledge of these things is far superior to mine.

It's interesting to note that FOE are offering one of these as a prize!!! I've just received an email from them.

Win a £1500 rooftop wind turbine...
for only £1
Dear Shirley,

As you may already know Friends of the Earth Scotland’s annual Prize Draw takes place at the end of December.

This year we’ve got some truly amazing prizes on offer - including a Windsave rooftop wind turbine worth £1500. The prize includes free installation too.

Other amazing prizes include...

• a year’s supply of Ecover products;

• a pair of first class return Virgin Train tickets anywhere in Britain;

• £300 worth of Natural Collection vouchers; and

• two nights B&B at ‘Green tourism’ accredited Willowburn Hotel, Clachan Seil.

In a way, seeing this as a first prize will elevate it's status even more with some people - almost like an endorsement from FOE.

Ticket sellers' prize

As usual, there is also a prize for the person who sells the most tickets.

Can I sell you a ticket

[Martin]

words will be had!
The thread title sums it up!

[PurpleDragon]

Martin, I wasn't saying that these things were good. I agree with you wholeheartedly, and wouldnt dream of putting one on my house. If I won one, then I would take it and try to convert it somehow, or put it on the henhouse or something

I was just defending the Dr & his family - some folk are misguided, and don't look into things fully. They think they are helping the environment, but don't realise the costs to themselves.

Stupidity was never a crime. (Fortunately - or I'd be doing life!)

I think the folk who are selling them should be accountable though.

[Martin]

I'm just cross with people bringing the industry in which I work into disrepute!

[nathanbriggs]

I leave you alone for a few days and people are swallowing Martins words as though they are the gospel??

There are many different opinions how well windsaves concept works, just because Marin is shouting his from every available pulpit doesn't mean that his is right.

I work for windsave and we have proof it works, and trading standards and many others have evaluated that proof and given it the OK

Separate opinion from fact when researching things on the internet, anyone can say anything what can they prove?

[Martin]

you believe in data - so do I! ALL the data I have been able to glean about roof-mounted turbine performance has been really grim! (As in the top of this thread) - this is actually the best performance I've seen by far!
If you had satisfactory verified performance data, you'd print it, and shut up all your critics - as I have seen none, I presume it doesn't exist!
I still maintain that a roof-mounted turbine on the average home, in the average town, can never get anywhere near generating the much-vaunted claim of 30% saving!
By the way, what happened to the Warwickwindtrials? - seems to have come to a grinding halt some months ago - three months of data, confirming my suspicions (about 3mph average wind), then zilch for months.......I wonder why?

[Martin]

good heavens! - what a coincidence!
Another 4 months of data have suddenly arrived on the Warwickwindtrials site - giving us 7 months evaluation - an average of 1.4m/s - 3 miles an hour, in a spot which according to the NOABL database gives as 4.9 m/s - QED!!!!!!!!!
And do I notice a wholesale rewrite of another site too?

[nathanbriggs]

I still maintain that a roof-mounted turbine on the average home, in the average town, can never get anywhere near generating the much-vaunted claim of 30% saving!

We've never disagreed on this Martin - and that's my point. Windsave doesn't claim the average home it claims that at least 10% of homes in the country (minimum) are viable sites for our turbines. As the price of electricity rises so will that percentage rise, as we get net metering enforced and half a dozen other barriers are removed so it will increase again. But since the Average home has a less than 4m/s wind speed (I don't know how much less no one does) it would be crazy to even claim payback for the AVERAGE home let alone savings on your bill.

We are not screaming at each other from different planets, I don't live in a cloud-cuckoo land where wind speeds are higher than have been measured. I claim and can prove that in the right location roof mounted wind turbines work.

And now we get shot down because we refused to fit a turbine on a crummy site and you jump on the band wagon saying it proves your point? What would you like us to do fit a turbine that will export pennies a year??

[Martin]

I honestly can't think of ANY roof in the UK that would allow that "30%" per annum generation figure - we've seen the figures for Hugh Piggott's roof - 1.73m/s. Lillington Road in the Warwickwindtrials - 1.3m/s, My chum in Weymouth in a "windy spot" - 1.7m/s - it seems to be averaging out that the average windspeed over a roof is approximately one third of that suggested by the NOABL database for that grid square - so I reckon you'd need at least a 15m/s NOABL speed to give a paltry 5m/s over a roof!
10% of the UK at that sort of average?
As for me and Justin - we've been crossing swords since the Big Green Gathering - if a debate dear to my heart pops up, I can hardly stand idly by!
We both know that small turbines are a damned sight slower to pay back than big ones, so they need all the help they can get - to bung them in an inherently "silly" place like a roof kills them stone dead! Be kind to your turbine - put it on a nice tall pole, up and away from the turbulence - and really do some paying back!
Like this!

[HILLDREAMER90]

Now you two play nicely!!! Yeh mabe a bit harsh about the gp, they think their being green, but the payback on the teapot dont seem to add up. I know very little about windmills & when i first heard abt B&Q selling them i thought it was a step in the right direction. But it seems to be all about marketing. [shame] Im in a ideal location for windpower [NEScotland] & when i have the money i'd love to invest in a decent size one. A.