A bloke i met in the pub last night told me that theres a law saying that if a building or land hasent been used for so many years that you can legally claim it as your own.
Does anybody know if this is true? as my dream is to own and live on my own land like a croft or build my own eco freindly house and have enough land to grow and farm animals.
claiming land
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Muddypause
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Who was it that said "All property is theft"?
I have a feeling that it is quite complex. AIUI, you have to show that no one has demonstrated any 'interest' in the land. This can be quite subtle, and doesn't have to involve actually using the place - and I seem to recall it was for rather longer than 7 years. 25 years springs to mind, but I could be mis-remembering. And if it has been registered at the Land Registry (England and Wales - dunno about Scotland, etc.) as all land sold since 197something has to be, then I don't think you have a realistic chance. It's the abandoned, unregistered, unworked, unacknowledged land that you've got to find. And also hope that no one else is thinking like you, I suppose.
A few years ago there was a feature on the news about a council tenant who had lived in a house for a number of years, and the council had forgotten to ask for any rent, or otherwise acknowledge his presence there. He used this to demonstrate to court that the council had shown no interest in the property, and was successfully able to claim it.
But I've also heard of people who surreptitiously fenced off bits of land in the hope that it would stop anyone using it, but subsequently failed to convince the courts that they had a rightful claim to it. Actually, my neighbour has done this, possibly with more hope of success - the land is a narrow gap of aparrently abandoned land between his fence and the fence around the neighbouring factory unit. He has extended his fence on the advice that it will ulitimately be for someone else to contest it, and if that doesn't happen for long enough, it will, ipso facto, become part of his garden.
My worry would be that after a time living there, building your house, working the land, etc., someone would come out of the past and lay claim to it. Even if they were unsuccessful, if could see it easily costing tens of thousands in legal fees to defend your position. Such a prospect wouldn't help me sleep at night.
The Land Registry has a fairly interesting site, and for a small fee you can find out if they have any record of ownership (probably don't cover Scotland, though). You can phone them, too, informally - this may be the way to find out about this.
I have a feeling that it is quite complex. AIUI, you have to show that no one has demonstrated any 'interest' in the land. This can be quite subtle, and doesn't have to involve actually using the place - and I seem to recall it was for rather longer than 7 years. 25 years springs to mind, but I could be mis-remembering. And if it has been registered at the Land Registry (England and Wales - dunno about Scotland, etc.) as all land sold since 197something has to be, then I don't think you have a realistic chance. It's the abandoned, unregistered, unworked, unacknowledged land that you've got to find. And also hope that no one else is thinking like you, I suppose.
A few years ago there was a feature on the news about a council tenant who had lived in a house for a number of years, and the council had forgotten to ask for any rent, or otherwise acknowledge his presence there. He used this to demonstrate to court that the council had shown no interest in the property, and was successfully able to claim it.
But I've also heard of people who surreptitiously fenced off bits of land in the hope that it would stop anyone using it, but subsequently failed to convince the courts that they had a rightful claim to it. Actually, my neighbour has done this, possibly with more hope of success - the land is a narrow gap of aparrently abandoned land between his fence and the fence around the neighbouring factory unit. He has extended his fence on the advice that it will ulitimately be for someone else to contest it, and if that doesn't happen for long enough, it will, ipso facto, become part of his garden.
My worry would be that after a time living there, building your house, working the land, etc., someone would come out of the past and lay claim to it. Even if they were unsuccessful, if could see it easily costing tens of thousands in legal fees to defend your position. Such a prospect wouldn't help me sleep at night.
The Land Registry has a fairly interesting site, and for a small fee you can find out if they have any record of ownership (probably don't cover Scotland, though). You can phone them, too, informally - this may be the way to find out about this.
Stew
Ignorance is essential
Ignorance is essential
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Stonehead
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There's always hope. I know someone who's been squatting an old Victorian baths for more than 10 years (no names and no location!).paradox wrote:I did imagine it may be rather complex.
I do like dreaming about the idea though
Their aim is to stay there in a low-profile way for as long as they can and only if someone challenges them will they go to court. They see no point in raising the issue before then.
They have their living room in the main (drained) swimming pool - you climb down the ladders to get to the sofas!
The whole place has been furnished and fitted out from salvage and skip diving. Their most amazing find was one of those TV projectors that are attached to the ceiling - the owner threw it out when he changed to a plasma TV. It now projects ambient, computer-generated images onto the wall at the deep end of the pool - really cool!
I also had friends at St Agnes Place in Kennington (I lived around the corner) and that shows the flip side of the equation - the authorities sent in the riot police to help the council evict them and every court case went against the squatters even though many had been there since 1974. (And Cllr Fitchett, who described the squatters as parasites, lives in luxury while many of them have been left homeless.)
A way forward perhaps, but not free. Woodland, relatively cheap to buy in some parts of the country. I understand that if you go unnoticed in your self build home and prove occupation for a number of years, you can stay. There was recently that tramp ( with respect) type person that lived on an area of Hamstead Heath, he got to own or live on the land, some of the most expensive on the planet.
I recall a TV programme of a Sussex man (I think) who worked the woodland, charcoal, I think. He had permission to build a cabin home, he had lived on the site in a caravan previously. Who would see you come and go in some areas? In some cases you might be able to live on land to protect it from vandalism say or in the course of your business perhaps, Chair maker anyone?
John
I recall a TV programme of a Sussex man (I think) who worked the woodland, charcoal, I think. He had permission to build a cabin home, he had lived on the site in a caravan previously. Who would see you come and go in some areas? In some cases you might be able to live on land to protect it from vandalism say or in the course of your business perhaps, Chair maker anyone?
John
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Muddypause
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I asked a planning officer about this once, because I have thought along these sorts of lines from time to time. I had heard that if you build a house, and no one objected for five years, planning permission would automatically be granted.jondy wrote:I understand that if you go unnoticed in your self build home and prove occupation for a number of years, you can stay.
Well, no; again, not quite as simple as that. There is no statutory right that says this is so, and retrospective planning applications are subject to the same scrutiny as any other planning application. But if no one has complained about your building, then you have some added weight to your application, so it may stand a better chance of being approved, where formerly it would have failed.
This would be the Ben Law house. He is quite celebrated in strawbale building circles, but it took him 12 years to get planning permission, and even then it had onerous conditions attached to it.I recall a TV programme of a Sussex man (I think) who worked the woodland, charcoal, I think. He had permission to build a cabin home, he had lived on the site in a caravan previously.
None the less, he has been an inspiration to many, not least for the fact that his house was built for a total of £28,000
I'm not trying to dampen your spirits, and I too have had idle thoughts like these. Practically, though, you are going to need to survive. This means having some sort of shelter, and getting regular supplies. If you are going to build, it means getting materials on site; if you are going to be mobile, you will need some sort of road access. Unless you want utter isolation, you will become a familiar face in some parts of the community - the shops, the post office (how will you get your mail), the pub; you will make friends, who will ask about where you live. If you become ill, you may need the attentions of a doctor...Who would see you come and go in some areas?
When I was younger, I spent 7 years in a caravan a quarter of a mile from the nearest road, behind trees, hidden and unofficial - yet the pesky census officers still managed to find me for their ten yearly census - don't ask me how.
I think the nub of the matter is, how can poor people, without access to finance, but with a willingness to accept challenges and a bit of practical application, get to have somewhere of their own to call home. If this sounds familiar, then you are not alone; I've been trying to fathom it out for ages - years, now. Every time I manage to sort out some sort of finance, property prices have scooted away ahead of me. I'm beginning to come round to the idea of co-housing, or some sort of community living, where people combine their resources to see what they can do together.
Stew
Ignorance is essential
Ignorance is essential
Yes, Stew, I can relate to the finance thing... it has been our problem too.
We have been fixing up cruddy old houses for 5 years now, just to get onto some land... not much fun moving into these awful houses, over and over again, with 3 small children. But hopefully it will have all been worth it - we have a hearing with the council on Dec 22 to see if we can build or not - the only land we could afford was without planning permission.
We have been fixing up cruddy old houses for 5 years now, just to get onto some land... not much fun moving into these awful houses, over and over again, with 3 small children. But hopefully it will have all been worth it - we have a hearing with the council on Dec 22 to see if we can build or not - the only land we could afford was without planning permission.
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PurpleDragon
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Stonehead
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Are you referring to the Highland and Islands Croft Entrant Scheme?PurpleDragon wrote:What about a crofting grant? I dont know diddly about them, but I know they can be made available on the west of Scotland. You'd need to contact The Highland Council crofting division or something
It aims to introduce active people to crofting communities that may be dominated by older or semi-retired crofters. The sceme tries to get crofts released to younger people as well as providing support.
But, while the scheme aims to bring in more families in particular, the age limits (18-40) actually exclude a lot of people with young families as there are many people like us who've had our children between 35 and 45.
So, you can have a active couple who are both just over 40, with kids under 10, and who could make a contribution to a community ruled out of getting the help and support.
Equally, a family that had their children young could be aged under 40 and have teenagers moving out of home, so they aren't going to bring a "young" family to the community.
It's like all bureaucratic ideas, good in theory but all over the place in practice.
Still, it may help some people some of the time!
Get more details from the Crofters Commission, but be aware that there is a lot of demand for crofts, particularly those close to large population centres and in major tourist destinations.
Eco Village October
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFR_...related&search=
Eco Village August
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jz7...related&search=
Eco Village September big green gathering
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yjdf...related&search=
Ecovillage July
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQwk...related&search=
Ecovillage June
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The website of the group, Im tied up at the moment but may offer to go and help them build as the more eco villages that succeed the more likely more will be built
http://www.lammas.org.uk/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFR_...related&search=
Eco Village August
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jz7...related&search=
Eco Village September big green gathering
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yjdf...related&search=
Ecovillage July
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQwk...related&search=
Ecovillage June
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY6a...related&search=
The website of the group, Im tied up at the moment but may offer to go and help them build as the more eco villages that succeed the more likely more will be built
http://www.lammas.org.uk/