I BELIEVE OUR WIND TURBINE DESIGN IS WRONG TO USE.

[john]

Hi ALL, I believe our wind turbine design is wrong. I've been reading about what everyones saying in regards to wind turbines,good and bad. May I put forward my own idea to help solve the problem of high and low winds,and strong and weak ones to drive a fan like blade system. WHICH I WOULD NOT USE because they only use the air flow which is in front of them at a certain height.
As a unknown inventor the way I would use the same generator is to attached it to a tubular upright system,where any wind would help to turn it round. This you could have on a small scale something like they fit onto the top of the roof of vans,or on a large scale with some sort of mesh to help stop things comeing in contact with the rotating blades,but will not cut down the wind speed driving the blades,which I know how to do in my own way,made from ground level to what ever height you wanted it to be. Simply done by just adding sections one on top of another made of plastic to help keep down the weight on the bearing in front of the generator,and to help keep down the cost too.
If there is anyone out there with the money to make a mould to make up blade sections,and the money for generators please contact me so we can become millionaires.
Now you know how we can control the wind to make electicity,why do we have to make hard work of solving a simple problem on the land,the ones we have at sea are designed right to cope with the wave problem to support the generator. If the design is right I can't see no good reason why we can't have wind turbines fitted to a roof looking like a chimney,or to have a round like structure set up in our back gardens,which would become the norm,with say a wind direction indicator on the top of each one,all held in place by a frame work. May we all live long and happy,with the WIND POWER TO DRIVE THINGS UNDER CONTROL, to help keep down the cost of living. John. J.R.P.

[Muddypause]

John, you are, truly, onto something here, but forget about being a millionaire - what you have just described is a well established design; either the Savonius or Darrieus wind turbines are vertical axis turbines that will respond to wind coming from any direction. Put those two words into Google for lots more pages with examples on them.

Personally, I think you are quite right - they may well prove to be the way forward for practical rooftop wind generators.

[john]

John, you are, truly, onto something here, but forget about being a millionaire - what you have just described is a well established design; either the Savonius or Darrieus wind turbines are vertical axis turbines that will respond to wind coming from any direction. Put those two words into Google for lots more pages with examples on them.

Personally, I think you are quite right - they may well prove to be the way forward for practical rooftop wind generators.

Hi Muddypause,thank you for showing your interest in my idea,yes my way is a vertical axis system,but with a difference,any wind passing the half cone blades or flaps system would help to turn my wind driven system,which I have not seen on the websites suggested I look at.
I can understand the higher you go the more chance you have of movement to control at the top end. But this could be sorted out by having a thinner top part,plus it will be made up of lots half cone shapes to help to trap the wind,instead of using a blade or propellor like most wind driven ideas used. I'm working on the idea the more the wind has to try and go pass something the more energy you can create.
Try to imagine a larg round cheese greater surface spinning around with all those air pockets to catch the wind in,at high speed it would look like a solid object,no matter how high it was on the ground or fixed up high I know it will work.
The only problem I can see is it will be so simple to make and to use every one will want one,in the UK and in the rest of the world.
My offer still stands, John. J.R.P.

[nathanbriggs]

VAWT's are great and they are a good solution for many wind turbine designs. Some things you need to be aware of:

Many blade and "solid" designs have increased drag and so they rarely reach a useful rpm, with a pumping solution this is not a problem (hence classic western US windmills have have 30 some blades to pump water). All electrical generation (within reason) will need a relatively high rpm to generate any effective power.

Ducting air has been shown both theoretically and practically to be less cost effective. If you already have the "ducts" in terms of buildings sometimes you get a "tunnel" effect but trying to duct air is more expensive and less productive than just using a larger turbine in unducted air. the main reason this is that any ducting design increases turbulence and therefore lessens power.

Finally the biggest problem with a VAWT design both savonius and darrius is self-starting at low wind speeds, many designs are artifically "kicked" into action to see if the wind is their to sustain them see "turby" and "quietrevolution" for a couple of good examples.

{in the nature of full disclosure I consult for http://www.windsave.com}

[john]

Hi Nathanbriggs,or anyone else,can you tell me if there's a wind catching design like mine,because so far I haven't seen one.
As I've just read, ( FUNDING YOUR ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROJECT) from three main sources. UK Government,Energy suppliers,and my local authority. If it does not exist I will have to get in touch with them. and the Energy Saving Trust too. John. J.R.P.

[Muddypause]

Finally the biggest problem with a VAWT design both savonius and darrius is self-starting at low wind speeds, many designs are artifically "kicked" into action to see if the wind is their to sustain them see "turby" and "quietrevolution" for a couple of good examples.

I'm not sure that self starting is a problem with the Savonius, though it is naturally a fairly inefficient device. I would have thought the Darrieus was eminently suited to micro-chip control of the blade angle. This could enable it to self start, and optimise efficiency at all times and in all wind conditions. I would have thought this was comparitively simple, these days. Just needs a bit of development for the commecial market.

John, have you got any examples or diagrams of you design?

[john]

Hi Muddypause,no thats all filed away,but if you were to turn the inside drum of a spin-drier inside out,that's as near as I can say,ok. John. J.R.P.

[john]

Hi Muddypause,and others,can you tell me who you would get in touch with if you had,what you thought was a new design to help catch the wind to drive a generator,in the South East. ( Greenwich ) area would be best for me to visit,thank you. John. J.R.P.

[john]

VAWT's are great and they are a good solution for many wind turbine designs. Some things you need to be aware of:

Many blade and "solid" designs have increased drag and so they rarely reach a useful rpm, with a pumping solution this is not a problem (hence classic western US windmills have have 30 some blades to pump water). All electrical generation (within reason) will need a relatively high rpm to generate any effective power.

Ducting air has been shown both theoretically and practically to be less cost effective. If you already have the "ducts" in terms of buildings sometimes you get a "tunnel" effect but trying to duct air is more expensive and less productive than just using a larger turbine in unducted air. the main reason this is that any ducting design increases turbulence and therefore lessens power.

Finally the biggest problem with a VAWT design both savonius and darrius is self-starting at low wind speeds, many designs are artifically "kicked" into action to see if the wind is their to sustain them see "turby" and "quietrevolution" for a couple of good examples.

{in the nature of full disclosure I consult for http://www.windsave.com}

Hi Nathanbriggs,like your man running inside the pet wheel on this forum,his feet are the energy supply being used to turn the wheel from the inside,my idea is like lots of little feet turning the wheel on the outside to make the job easier. This would mean you can go as wide as you like, (which is as high as you like ) to get more wind like feet driving the wheel,and no drag because of the half shape cone blades system too. John. J.R.P.

[Muddypause]

Hi Muddypause,and others,can you tell me who you would get in touch with if you had,what you thought was a new design to help catch the wind to drive a generator,in the South East. ( Greenwich ) area would be best for me to visit,thank you. John. J.R.P.

It's a very difficult question to answer, John. Nearly every inventor will tell you about how difficult it is to get any development input into their work. There are many people beavering away in garden sheds trying to develop worthwhile things on a shoestring, who can only wonder at big companies like Black & Decker, who spend a fortune on developing a new kind of power drill every christmas time, which is simply junk by the new year.

If you want to turn your ideas into a business, there may be Enterprise Agencies near you who will help you with business advice (ask your local council if they know of anything). But they may not be able to help you with developing the product.

I guess if you are really confident of your design, you would be advised to patent it, but it might be a good idea to get a working model of it going first.

Maybe you could get in touch with the science department of a university or an engineering college, or some such, to see if they could help with development.

The trouble is, if you want to market your idea, you either need to be very very lucky, or you are going to need people who will believe in you enough to invest their money in you (have you ever seen The Dragon's Den on TV?), and there are thousands of other people chasing the same money.

Sorry to sound so negative, but you sound like someone who won't be defeated by mere details like these.

[john]

Hi Muddypause,thank you for shareing your thoughts with me. Fileing a patent I can do,but that can cost a lot of money as I've already found out. Plus at my age I THINK starting a business would be great,but at what cost to me financally and to my health. I know most of the answers to lots of our problems,but getting them used is another matter,which I've also found out. I don't really care if someone else puts 2 and 2 together and makes 4 with some of my ideas,as long as the end result helps to solve the problem. I've just read about the o2 grant to help with some projects,maybe they might be able to help in some way.
In the mean time I'm trying my paint down the tube idea with some white emualtion I had,a messy business trying to get paint pass a air lock when pouring. Like you said a optic fibre lets light bend,so you can bend light,and the photons don't come out,so can energy be produced from light or not. I have no way of finding out in a practical way. John. J.R.P.

[Muddypause]

Hi Muddypause,thank you for shareing your thoughts with me. Fileing a patent I can do,but that can cost a lot of money as I've already found out. Plus at my age I THINK starting a business would be great,but at what cost to me financally and to my health. I know most of the answers to lots of our problems,but getting them used is another matter,which I've also found out. I don't really care if someone else puts 2 and 2 together and makes 4 with some of my ideas,as long as the end result helps to solve the problem. I've just read about the o2 grant to help with some projects,maybe they might be able to help in some way.

Good luck with it, whatever you decide to do. Personally, I think it is far preferable to be healthy and happy but poor, rather than rich with ulcers and a drink problem. I realised my limitations a few years ago, and life has been much better ever since, even though I don't have much money.

In the mean time I'm trying my paint down the tube idea with some white emualtion I had,a messy business trying to get paint pass a air lock when pouring. Like you said a optic fibre lets light bend,so you can bend light,and the photons don't come out,so can energy be produced from light or not. I have no way of finding out in a practical way. John. J.R.P.

You can certainly get energy from light - a photovoltaic (solar electric) panel does just that; it converts the light that falls on it into electricity. But in fact, light doesn't have a whole lot of energy in it. Most of what comes out of a lightbulb, or the sun, is heat. This means that if you are dealing with light alone, you need quite a lot of it to be useful. And once the light has been made to do work, or produce electricity, it stops being light, so you can't keep getting more energy out of the same photons.

[john]

Hi ALL'thanks to Ben W I've just sent a e-mail to BWEA ( British Wind Energy Association ) to see if they are interested in my new design. I will let you know how I got on. John. J.R.P.

[Martin]

you could try the micropower council too!

[john]

you could try the micropower council too!

Hi Martin,I had a look,they have a few new turbines they are promoting,for example the WREN and others,so they wont want mine will they. John. J.R.P.