Linux, Anyone?

[Muddypause]

Any Linux users here (an alternative to Windows, in case you're wondering)? I'm pretty sure there's at least one (Wulf?).

I've been struggling to install a version of Linux on my aging computer for a couple of weeks now. So far I've tried Ubuntu, Mandriva, and Fedora versions. I can get Ubuntu to work on a separate hard drive of its own, but not on the same one that has Windows on it, Mandriva wouldn't install at all, and Fedora will install alongside Windows, but just doesn't seem to work (can't make the modem work, the printer only works sometimes - and I haven't even tried anything else yet). And I'm really struggling to find my way around the layout of the system - it doesn't seem very intuitive at all. I'm really a bit disillusioned by it, and am reluctant to spend any more time on it, despite the plaudits people give it.

I thought Linux was meant to be accessible, but it still seems only to be useable by people with a degree in computing. Which is a pity, because I like the idea of open source, community built software. Is the age of my computer a problem - is it really only intended for high-end stuff? Is there an absolutely foolproof version yet?

[Shirley]

While we are on this topic - I've got a copy of Ubuntu that I haven't been brave enough to install so far.... Will my ms office and frontpage etc work with Ubuntu?

[wulf]

Yes, I do use Linux... and, no, I don't have time to go into detail at the moment. I'll pop back later and try and be a bit more helpful!

Wulf

[Martin]

I too "had a tinker" with several of them - the only one I could get to work was "Damn small Linux" - it has the decency to pick up the settings for the browser etc. from windows! Worth a twiddle!
http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/

[The Chili Monster]

Shirlz wrote:

While we are on this topic - I've got a copy of Ubuntu that I haven't been brave enough to install so far.... Will my ms office and frontpage etc work with Ubuntu?

In short, you can't run a Microsoft application on Linux OS (Bill Gates wants you to pay huge sums of money updating Windows every so often). However, if you download Openoffice (free from www.openoffice.org), you are able to open and edit MS Office documents with the added bonus of a free pdf converter! That's for personal or business use by the way. Not sure about Frontpage, you may have to switch to a new package.

I'm not an expert but I have been researching a switch to Linux for some time. In my eagerness I bought first a copy of the debian distro (it's too advanced) then sought safety in numbers by purchasing a copy of the Fedora Core distro. Then, to my horror, I discovered you can't play mp3 files with Fedora and I've too many music files to convert to .wav. So, now, for my sins I have purchased a copy of SuSE.

I haven't as yet installed it. I'm looking to upgrade the RAM on my 'puter and treat it to an external hard drive. I have a copy of Partition Magic and come armed with a book. I have even located the user manual. I need to keep Windows since accounting software and Linux don't play and so it's a matter of deciding how much of the C: drive I wish to dedicate to Windows and how much to Linux (bearing in mind that the Windows will be able to raid the external hard drive when I get it).

So, my question to Wulf and any other knowledgeable Linux affectionados out there is this: if I partion the disk, will the SuSE automatically load in one partition or will it simply find the space it needs on installation (without the partition software?). Is it advisable to return the 'puter to factory settings beforehand rather than use the partion software to 'shrink' Windows?

Muddy - there is a Linux User Group located in London (it's the only one I can find situated in the South East). They seem a friendly bunch -sign up to the mailing list at: www.lonix.org.uk
I haven't asked them anything yet; I feel a bit stupid asking basic questions regarding installation as it is.

[Shirley]

Thanks for that CM - apparently I can run ubuntu from the cd just to give a whirl...

[2steps]

I have tried knoppx. That can be run from just the cd too, so you can try it

[The Chili Monster]

Oh, yeah, most distros now come with Open Office as a package.
Probably not Live CDs such as Knoppix or Ubuntu, though.

[wulf]

If one thing is certain, it is that using Linux is a very experience to using Windows. It certainly gives a lot more scope for ubergeekery but has definitely reached the point where it is quite usable for people whose hobby isn't playing with computers.

There is no guarantee that it will work with a given piece of computer hardware but, to be fair, that is also the case with Windows. If you change operating system (for example switching to a flavour of Linux or making an upgrade from, say Win98 to WinXP) you can be quite sure to find a few annoyances; in fact, that can even be the case if you have to reinstall your operating system and don't have all the install disks and licence numbers readily to hand.

A problem with modems in particular is that there was a phase when many modem manufacturers started to rely on the Windows operating system to do some of the work that was formally done by the hardware; without the right software driver, they wouldn't work at all. Some of those problems have been solved by programmers who have figured out what's missing and created free alternatives; others can only be answered by "buy a different modem" (see linmodems for more clues).

I would suggest that "run from CD" options (like Knoppix, Damn Small Linux or even, increasingly, the install disks for many fully-fledged distros like Ubuntu) are a really good way of exploring Linux. They won't run as fast as a disk based install will and saving your date is more awkward (USB pen drives can help though) but it gives a safe way to play before committing yourself.

Realistically, it will take time to become familiar with it. I now use Linux about 95% of the time and am very happy with what it allows me to do but I have been dabbling with it since 1999 - not an overnight change!

Wulf

[Muddypause]

Just a quick caution about installing Linux onto a Windows machine. You can do it OK, but only if you make space for it on your hard drive. I have just installed a new hard drive on my computer, so I was able to experiment with installing Linux onto the old disc. This gave me some understanding of what's going on with the partitons, and how to avoid wiping all your data.

I used GParted for the partitioning, which runs from a CD (you cannot partition the drive that you are using). GParted is actually a stripped down version of Linux, set up for that one application. And it's free.

For the versions that I've tried to install, you need to make space on your drive. It's easiest to leave the empty space unformatted. Linux will then ask you where you want it to be installed, and you choose the 'empty space' option. But be careful - if you do it wrong it is possible to wipe the whole disk. Make a backup of everything remotely important first. It is also recommended to defragment the drive before partitioning.

Be aware, also, that when you partition your drive, Linux doen't use the A: B: C: notation that Windows does. Your primary hard drive will be 'hda', and the partitions on it will be 'hda1', hda2' etc. None of this seems to be explained anywhere - you just have to pick it up.

I tried the 'live CD' version of Ubuntu first, but it was extremely slow on my old machine (click on something and a full three minutes would pass before it opened). When I tried to install it, it would bring up the first couple of set-up screens of the install process, and then just go to sleep. I had better luck with the 'alternative' CD which does not run 'live', but even with this I could not get the boot program to work (it's the bit which gives you a choice between booting into Windows or into Linux).

With Fedora, I have a feeling the instalation is corrupting. but don't know enough about it to be sure. As it takes up 5 installation CDs, I'm reluctant to re-burn them all again.

CM - my understanding is that you can play MP3s on Linux, but you will need to install a program that Fedora don't supply - the issue being that the MP3 format is technically not freely available.

I have been looking at various Linux forums, but to be honest I simply don't understand most of the advice - jargon rules OK!

But I was pleased to see that some elements of Linux have built-in humour; on one of my many failed installation attempts, it didn't say 'Fatal Error', but 'Bad Magic'.

[The Chili Monster]

Muddy, if your machine reads DVD then you are welcome to the copy I've got.

[wulf]

Yes, that's an important thing to grasp. Linux is not a program you run from within Windows (*). It needs its own space to run.

One option is just to zap everything on your machine and replace it with Linux but that's a pretty drastic approach. Much more feasible is finding an alternative strategy such as creating free space on your disk (a bit techie), using an alternative hard drive (needs hardware-fu rather than software-fu) or, easiest of all, finding an alternative computer to play on (for example £115 + P&P gets the next model up from the fastest of the two machines I've got on my desk at work, which would definitely run Linux; even better if you can find an old one that a friend or family member has abandoned because they've just brought the latest speed machine for their games). I spent a long time playing with Linux before committing to it for most of my computing needs.

BTW, if you download disk images from the Internet, there's often an MD5 file available as well. This contains a number that a MD5 checking program (Google for options - I use md5sum which is included in most Linux installs) can use to ensure that what you've downloaded didn't get damaged in transit.

Wulf

(*) Pedants would find ways to disagree with this but the concept is sound enough for understanding what is going on.

[Muddypause]

Muddy, if your machine reads DVD then you are welcome to the copy I've got.

Thanks, Chili, but no DVD.

Wulf, my main problem, with both Fedora and Ubuntu, is getting the modem to work. I have a Linux patch and installation instructions from the manufacturer, but can't make it all hang together. You have to enter a procedure in the terminal, but this eventually just returns an error message.

At least I can get the printer to work in Ubuntu. But for the moment Windows remains.

[Muddypause]

Well, I'm pleased to say, and to my utter astonishment, that there is now a penguin in my computer, and I am posting this from Linux (Fedora Core 5, if anyone is in the least bit interested - just as they update it to 6).

I'm pretty please with meself, but talk about a steep learning curve. It's taken me weeks to figure out how to get this far, and I've no real idea what I've actually done.

[The Chili Monster]

Congrats!