t*sco and s*insbury

[Chickpea]

Like so much in life it's not just black and white. "T***o evil. Organic box good." A lot of harm is done by T***o, but that doesn't mean it's impossible for them to do good stuff sometimes, too.

That's the problem with the environmental lobby at large. The media have to present all arguments/wars/conflicts/issues in terms of simple soundbites, but it's a circular process and people (like us) who listen to the media can end up thinking in simple soundbite terms if we're not careful. T***o aren't Hitler. They don't set out to be bad. They set out to make money, and they aren't too concerned if they do bad things along the way. Just like most other companies. There's the odd business here and there which has an ethical policy but they're in a tiny minority. T***o are very very big, so everything they do is big. When they do something bad they do big bad. But they are capable of big good as well, if you'll pardon my deteriorating grammar.

I've chosen to boycott T***o and positively support local shops/businesses/producers instead. I've actually found it lots of fun searching out other places to shop, who has the best veg, who makes yummy local cheese, and so on. But it requires a bit of time and effort to do that, as well as good local producers waiting to be found. Some people just don't have the time or energy, and some people live in a gastronomic wasteland, perhaps in the middle of big cities. You can shop ethically in T***o. They have a massive range of fair trade, organic, and British goods. I've had to go back to non-organic and non-fair-trade options for some of my regular things since boycotting T***o because I just can't find them on my high street although I make a point of asking for them. You can be a thoughtful shopper in T***o, and a thoughtless shopper locally. It's up to you.

If your conscience pricks you about shopping at T***o (or Sainsbury or any of the Big 4) then choose the fair trade, British and organic options, and write frequent letters to the manager of your local store and the head office challenging them about the areas you are concerned about. If they think customers care they will change things.

[multiveg]

Who did the HDRA's supermarket watch survey in 2004? I did and recall seeing organic produce was from the middle east/africa or other far-away locations while the non-organic ones that were in season were UK or Europe-sourced. Food miles again! Local organic vs local non-organic = organic better. Local non-organic vs organic from the other side of the planet = local non-organic better. How about the pre-prepared stuff - sliced carrots, shelled peas - they often come from Kenya when they are in season here.

I don't buy fruit and vegetables from the greengrocer - the one in my town is appauling. They have a room out back where they smoke which you can smell as you enter the shop. Wash before use! Well, I like to grab an apple, polish it on my top and eat but that won't get rid of the smokiness if I were to buy from this place.

[Shirley]

The HDRA survey opened my eyes actually - so much of the organic stuff, as you say, is shipped in from abroad when it's in season over here.

I haven't been to T***o since this thread started - and don't intend to go again.

[ina]

I didn't do the HDRA survey because it would have meant me going to the supermarket, which I don't usually do... Except the occasional topup in Lidl's or Aldi's (now that we've got both nearby) for certain foods that I can't get anywhere else! (Yes, I admit it, I do sometimes like some of that German stuff. And their recycled loopaper is nice and cheap. )

Anyway, just to add a few points to this discussion that haven't been mentioned yet.

Supermarkets don't necessarily offer what the customer wants. If it suits them, they manipulate the customer into wanting what is easy/profitable for them to offer. One example out of one of those books (can't remember which one) was, when in one supermarket the sales of frozen veg were low compared to fresh, they didn't offer more fresh, they improved the presentation of the frozen so that it was more attractive to customers.

I've seen one small town lose about half it's traditional shops around the marketplace due to a largish supermarket built on the edge of town - that was in Germany, and the supermarkets there are tiny compared to what we've got here. There was a massive outcry when the new supermarket was first proposed - but unfortunately, they couldn't stop it being built.

There's always this argument that they create jobs. According to literature, supermakets only need half as many shopassistant hours to sell a certain amount of food as small shops - so effectively they kill jobs. Well, they have to save money on staff; efficiency of size is part of the reason why they make a profit.

Local shops are often just as bad as supermarkets, if they belong to one of the chains. Where I used to live until two years ago, there were three small local shops; all of them with the same rubbish range of junk and convenience food. However, all of them open 7-10 every day of the week... I'm extremely lucky where I live now. Although the nearest shops are both 4 miles away (in two different directions!), both are independent and truly offer what the customer wants! One of them got organic milk and oatcakes just for me; they both sell local soft fruit when in season; local free range eggs, bread and cakes from a local baker etc. Not that all of that is terribly good, I still prefer my own bread... There are also a few farmshops in the vicinity, and several farmers have produce with honesty boxes at the roadside.

And I had a big grin on my face when a good friend of mine told me the other day, she won't be shopping at Sainsbury's any more - they had almost nothing of what she needed, and crap veg and fruit! That has happened to me, too: all I went to one of the larger supermarkets for were organic bananas, and they didn't have any.

If you read farming magazines, you are also aware of the way supermarkets deal with their producers. One example was, a few months ago, when a Welsh group of farmers who produced beef for (I believe) T***o, were given two weeks notice of cancellation. Now, it takes more than 2 years to produce beef - from getting the right number of cows in calf to producing enough winter fodder etc. Those farmers were left with cattle that they couldn't sell, except maybe for a price that wouldn't even cover cost. And that's just one example; it happens all the time.