Livestock costs

[Chickpea]

My husband and I have just spent a frustrating hour trying to find guideline prices for livestock such as pigs, goats and dairy cows. Just roughly, approximately, ballpark figures how much would we expect to pay for animals like this?

The thing is we might be able to get hold of some land much sooner than we thought, but if we spent all our savings we wouldn't be left with much money for livestock. So we want an idea how much to keep back in order to get, say,a couple of piglets for fattening and a dairy heifer and/or a couple of goats?

Can any of the livestock owners here help me out with our back-of-the-envelope calculations?

[Shirley]

Hi Chickpea

No idea on the heifer... but our goats cost £50 for the yearling and £75 for the nanny in milk.

Not sure how the prices vary across the uk though...

I've seen rare breed weaners advertised locally for around £35-50 each. Depends on the breed... Stoney will likely have some good info for you.

You have to have a holding number from Defra/seerad before you can keep animals

[Chickpea]

Holding number - that's the second time I've heard that today. Thanks Shirlz. Rightho, I think tomorrow I have to talk to Defra.

The thing is, we have a small house with a small garden that backs onto a big dairy farm. The plan is to see if the farmer will sell us a bit of land (probably 3 or 4 acres at first).

Now I know we're not allowed to buy some land and add it to our garden because the house is on residential land and the field is agricultural land and planning permission and all that.

But if I bought a field five miles away and kept a cow and some pigs on it, that'd be fine wouldn't it? So if I buy the field over the back and keep a cow and some pigs on it what's the problem? The field is the field and the house is the house and I'm not saying they go together, and I won't try to sell them as if they were all one plot.

At average prices for pastureland in this area, we have enough savings to buy a few acres tomorrow for cash, always assuming the farmer is willing to sell which he may not be. It feels like it's tantalisingly close.

Does anyone know anything about this - will my plan work? Tomorrow I'll try to talk to Defra and the local council and see if I can figure this out.

[Shirley]

Hiya...

(whereabouts in Cheshire are you?? Keep meaning to ask)

I'm not sure... perhaps that is something you could ask Defra about. Their website is actually quite good - not sure if you would get the answer to your question on there though. I reckon what you are saying is right though - it shouldn't matter where the 'field' is... so long as you don't try to incorporate it into your garden without some kind of planning permission for change of use. (just thinking aloud...)

[Boots]

Don't overlook fencing Chickpea. One of each of those critters could prove quite costly in terms of enclosing them, as they all have different considerations.

No good me quoting you from here, but just reminding you to add your fencing costs to each first purchase. Also consider your feeds... Always better to stock with what your land caters to.

Can tell you are excited! Hope it all comes together!

[Shirley]

Very true Boots... we've got electric netting around each different set of chooks... (light and buff sussex), another lot around the goats... and another lot around the nursery pen (ducklings, goslings and chicks (in a section of their own) )

[Chickpea]

I'm in Poynton, Shirlz, which is between Stockport and Macclesfield.

I've been talking on the phone for about an hour and my head is spinning with holding numbers, herd marks, ear tags, movement restrictions, planning regulations etc. I've made lots of notes and I'll need to talk it over with Mr Pea when he gets home from work.

But apparently I can buy a field and use it for agricultural purposes like keeping animals and growing crops as long as it doesn't "look like a garden" (i.e. lawns, flowerbeds, patios etc). I'm not supposed to make access between the house and the field either or they'll get suspicious. Just have to jump over the fence, then.

So I think it's a go-er, we'll just need to buy a big filing cabinet to keep all the paperwork straight.

Good point about the fencing and feed and so on, Boots. I hadn't thought of that but obviously I'll need to get that in place before I get any animals. Doh!

The trouble is I don't know what I don't know. What else do I need to do that I haven't even heard of yet?

[den_the_cat]

an average cow costs about £1k I think, you'd have to shed them in the winter (or they get hoof rot) and milk cows need a lot of looking after. Which is about all I know about cows except always wear steel toecaps when milking

I also hear horror stories about pigs in hot weather, they don't like the heat and have a tendancy to heart attacks apparantly. I've never kept them but I was discussing optimim pig temperatures at a barbi on saturday night with a guy who does.

[Andy Hamilton]

I was chatting to someone the other day about the costs and returns on livestock. Is it possible to get 4 people together to rent a cow? - well I guess to buy one and share the repsonsibility. Would this even be cost effective? If one cost 1k thats £250 each. I need about 1-2 pints of milk a day and then a lump of cheese (about £2's worth) a week. If we were to say that milk is 50p for a pint of organic thats about £150 a year plus the cheese that is £100 a year. So I guess that it would just pay for itself? Then I supose you can eat the cow after wards that must pay for itself.

[den_the_cat]

well obviously a good milk cow is around for longer than a year, but I suspect cows need other cows, or at least companion animals to stay happy and healthy and an unhealthy cow gives poor milk yields.

Plus to get good milk you need to (obviously) keep the cow producing milk, which means you need to calf her first, and then keep milking at a rate which makes her think the calf is still drinking. Cows produce gallons of milk a day and I wouldn't fancy doing that by hand twice a day.

I think a single cows impractical to be honest. I'm sure it can be done and you can probably even get small milking machines, but I think the vets bills would be high and without economy of scale it would be a hard thing to do.

Also, I don't know what old milk cow tastes like. A bit like mutton is to lamb I guess, perfectly edible but not quite rare steak material.

[Chickpea]

Andy, I like the idea. Don't forget to factor in other costs such as feed, housing, fencing, vet's bills etc. And your cow will be dry for a period each year and then you'll need to get her in calf to start again. I don't think cows really need other animals. In Ye Goode Olde Days most households would have their own cow. Big herds are a new thing, I think.

Our 4-year/week-plan has been put back a bit. It turns out the research my husband did into land prices was years out of date and land round here costs double what we thought. We haven't given up though, we're working on a new plan.

[Andy Hamilton]

Andy, I like the idea. Don't forget to factor in other costs such as feed, housing, fencing, vet's bills etc. And your cow will be dry for a period each year and then you'll need to get her in calf to start again. I don't think cows really need other animals. In Ye Goode Olde Days most households would have their own cow. Big herds are a new thing, I think.

Our 4-year/week-plan has been put back a bit. It turns out the research my husband did into land prices was years out of date and land round here costs double what we thought. We haven't given up though, we're working on a new plan.

I was thinking on this a bit more and I came to the conclusion that farmers are always looking for ways to make a little extra cash. How about a sponser a cow scheme? You always hear reports of milk going to waste (or indeed eggs) going to waste due to a glut. Cut out the middle man and go straight to the farmer. The big supermarkets must give a pitance to farmers for their milk, what if people bought it straight from their local farm? - kind of like a farm shop without the shop, it would mean that the farmer would have a regular customer(s) and you could know the cow where your dairy comes from.

I have heard of people renting fields chickpea, is that an option?

[ina]

These "rent-a-cow" schemes do exist - unfortunately, I can't remember where I last read about it... But if you google around a bit, I'm sure you'll find something. Might not be in your area.

Cows are, like most other agricultural livestock, gregarious animals and much happier if they have a companion. However, it doesn't need to be another cow - so if you keep several animals reasonably close together, they'll be company for each other. I think "back in the old days" when folk often had only one cow, they made up for lack of company through more personal attention from humans - no milking machines then, so a lot more interaction with their owners. If you just keep one goat, for example, they'll become a bit like dogs, following you around all the time (fine, if you've got nothing else to do!).

[Martin]

if you were to pull all the threads together, you could have a jolly good scheme there! 8)
Say there's a small organic farmer who's not exactly flush with money, it may well pay him to offer exactly that - "shares" in the herd (probably better than just one cow) - whereby he'd know that he's got the money in the bank for the male beasts when they're ready for eating, and a certain amount of milk and cheese pre-sold - enabling him to expand without going into hock to the banks! - yet again, I reckon Stoney would be the bloke to tell you if it'd fly!

[Stonehead]

Can any of the livestock owners here help me out with our back-of-the-envelope calculations?

I haven't much time, but here are a few things to get you thinking...

Pigs
Cross-breed or non-pedigree weaners - £30-40 each, depending on age with around £35 at 12 weeks as a baseline.
Birth-registered weaners - £40-50 each, more for ones from good lines.
Pedigree weaners - £50+, considerably more for ones from good lines (eg show winners etc).
Pedigree gilts - average (basically for breeding meat pigs), £80-100; good quality from good lines, £150+
Pedigree, proven sow from good lines, £200+ (a friend paid 500 guineas for a top-notch sow!)

Dairy cow
Good quality pedigree heifer, £450-550 with the best passing £1,000
Good quality pedigree cow, start at £750 or so, with most around the £1200 mark and the best going well above £2000 (again, I know someone who paid 4000 guineas for a top pedigree Holstein cow).
Cross-breeds, particularly to beef sires, will come in at a lot less and many dairy herds will be happy to sell you one. Some dairy herds will also sell you their reject heifers - fine for a house cow but not likely to be productive enough for a commercial herd.
Personally, I'd go for a Jersey if I could afford one but a good cow in milk will cost you around £1000 and an in-calf heifer around £750.


I haven't time to dig out my figures on other animals, but don't forget to add in:

Fencing (including gates, posts, wire, staples, tools, maintenance etc)
Appropriate housing
Water troughs (including all fittings, pipes, concrete etc)
Public liability insurance (if your animal gets out and is hit by a car, you may get sued)
Livestock insurance (if you have a £1000 cow and it gets stolen, how will you replace it)
Transport (do you need your own trailer - we've found it impossible to borrow or hire livestock trailers; and make sure it's insured against fire and theft)
Vet's bills (always have a contingency fund, plus the cost of worming, drenches, etc)
Cleaning costs if the animals have winter quarters (or are kept inside much of the time). You will need tools, sprayers, detergents, disinfectants.
Bedding (straw)
Feed (including storage - rat-proof, weather-proof, livestock proof; seed costs for reseeding fields, etc)
Appropriate clothing (so steel toed boots, gloves, overalls, waterproofs, etc)
Tags (including applicators)
Disposal of muck if the animals are kept inside
Regulatory costs (do you need a nitrates plan; do you need a fire risk assessment for sheds and housing - check the new regulations; transport competency certificate - check the new regulations;
Machinery costs - who is going to top the grass, reseed the grass, etc

And a final thought - who will look after the livestock if you're away and will you have to pay them? We do not have not anyone prepared to look after our livestock, so there always has to be one of us here (I've not had a night away from our place in almost two years so far).