bring back national service..........

[boboff]

Related in a way, is the comment made by the Tory MP about people being able to "opt" out of the minimum wage. This was specifically angled in out press as for the disabled.

So if I was disabled in anay way, would I work for 50p an hour less to some how compensate the employer for the additional costs of me working / the additional risks PERCIEVED in taking me on ( more sickness, propencity to claim "UNFAIR", time off for doctors etc) DAMM Right I would.

The trouble is that it costs £120 a day to keep a man in prison (£130 for a woman), £400 a day to keep someone in hospital, real numbers. What would it cost to keep a volunteer volunteering? Well the estimate for community punishment from the prison reform lady on telly yesterday was £10,000 a year. So I can't see why it would be that much less for a volunteer ( you still need the Risk Assessments, HR lady, Appraisals, Supervisor, Area Supervisor, Manager, Area Manager, Group Policy Co-ordinator, Outreach supervisor, Inclusivity Zsar, PR person, Religous Equality and Political Correctness Executive etc etc.

Then when the doped up Fathers of 12 at 21 actually turn up doing their impression of an African American from The Ghetto "Innit" with their hands jiggling their tetsticles, whilst snarling and spitting on the pavement, swearing, and making lewd comments to any female within a mile, and celebrating any semi literate statement with hand acrobatics and gestures with a friend like they have just scored the winning basket in an NBA final, the middle aged Dorothy who volunteered to "supervise" the rubbish removal and creation of a park land rasied bed area for community veg growing, swings were M&S two set out the park, gets in her 2003 Rover & goes home.

Oh and while I am at it, Women should retire at the same age as men, GET OVER IT.

[MKG]

Don't beat about the bush, boboff - tell us what you REALLY think

Mike

[clanpowell]

Then when the doped up Fathers of 12 at 21 actually turn up doing their impression of an African American from The Ghetto "Innit" with their hands jiggling their tetsticles, whilst snarling and spitting on the pavement, swearing, and making lewd comments to any female within a mile, and celebrating any semi literate statement with hand acrobatics and gestures with a friend like they have just scored the winning basket in an NBA final, the middle aged Dorothy who volunteered to "supervise" the rubbish removal and creation of a park land rasied bed area for community veg growing, swings were M&S two set out the park, gets in her 2003 Rover & goes home.

That is one of the best rant/descriptions of that type of "young person" I've ever read. You've got it spot on. Before anyone moans at me I do actually work with young people and there is too big a minority of youngsters who either behave like that or think it's cool/funny to do so. It's a shame because there are alot of young people who are the complete opposite of that. Is it me or are the majority being labelled/punished because of a minority of idiots. I'm thinking new uni fees as well here.

[grahamhobbs]

I don't hold with the view that the unemployed are there because it's there own fault. The capitalist system requires a body of unemployed as a reserve that employers can call on when needed and as a threat to keep wages down.
Having said that if the community then supports them, and I hope no one suggests we should be like third world countries and leave them to their own devices, I don't see why people shouldn't work for the community, but it should be proper work with proper wages, it is not a punishment.
As for growing veg, this could be great if a serious organisation towards feeding the community, otherwise It could be another stupid YTs scheme,, teaching someone living in a sixth floor flat how to grow cabbages ain't that relevant.

[boboff]

Graham, absolutely agree. What struck me though when I did that Forest Gardening cource, is there is absolutely no reason why we can't be planting our parks, road sides, schools, Hospitals etc etc with Edible Perenials, ground cover for nitrogen fixing, herbs, fruits, nuts. Why spend money on a decorative maple and a load of bedding plants saying "Drake 426" when we could get the unemployed to plant food. At least then it feeds the birds, the bees, the spiders, the bats, and if we are lucky, old Del Roy as above, may go eat a plum, "Innit"

[Annpan]

I emailed my local council about it a few years back Boboff.... they told me it was dangerous to plant edible plants in such areas.... cause people don't know what to do with them I really don't understand that, but clearly they need a kick up the derrier.

At the age of 10 my brother ate seeds from a laburnum tree growing on public ground.... he had to be rushed to hospital.... had it been a plumb or cherry tree I doubt that would have happened....

They told me the place for 'edible plants' was community garden schemes...

[gregorach]

Wha... It's too dangerous to plant edibles because people don't know what to do with them, but it's OK to plant deadly poisons?

I'm confused.

[MKG]

It's obvious, Dunc. If it was a carrot, someone would pull it, not recognise it and then try to stick it up their nose (or worse). Laburnum, on the other hand ... well, anyone who eats that is just plain stupid.

Mike

[KathyLauren]

why, if there are jobs that need doing and people unemployed, aren't these jobs being created and paid for as proper employment instead of all these useless job training (i.e.slave labour) schemes!

The ideological orthodoxy in vogue right now (and for the last 30 or so years) is that it is immoral not to make a profit.

The jobs need doing, and there are people able to do them, but no one is willing to pay for them to be done, since they will not make a profit. That they should be done for the good of society whether they are profitable or not just doesn't cross the radar of those in positions of influence.

I'd be in favour of national service - "ish"-y for most and military for those who need it.

[Thomzo]

I have regularly recruited school/college leavers over the last 20 years. In many cases there is little, if nothing, to chose between them from just looking at their CV's. So anything that makes a candidate to stand out will help their chances. If a candidate has done some form of regular work (either paid or voluntary) it sets them up as someone who is used to the discipline of work and makes them stand out against a candidate who hasn't.

Zoe