bring back national service..........

[niknik]

Well it´s probably the government´s next step anyway, what with having alrady raised the school leaving age to 18 . ( just to cut the unemployment figures I guess)

But it shouldnt be military national service....... but " ish" service..........

Use some derelict area/ abandoned farms etc, and turn them into productive farms, feed themselves from their own produce, and learn to cook it,sell any extra ( cheap.not a profit making idea) teach them some other ish concepts., etc etc.....

That would lower unemployment figures as well, teach them something useful,help the local community..

only exemptions.anyone in full time proper employment, or at Uni.

or make it obligatory for community service, long term unemp. ( no payments of benefits whilst there tho.)

[locum76]

I've just moved on to another job from a place that did exactly that. After six years there all I can say is - you can present the material but you cant always make them care.

Look up care farming, the Cyrenians Farm, Highfield happy hens and you'll get the idea.

I now work on a farm where people are into what they do. I think it'll be much easier to motivate the team.

[Andy Hamilton]

Difficult this one, forcing people to do things, however great the intentions can backfire. You'd not want reams of people resenting a vegetables!

But saying that, I found myself leaving school at the tail end of the last reccession. I could'nt get a job anywhere in fact I don't mind admiting I even applied for Mcdonalds and got turned down! So I faced 18 months on the dole and in and out of agency jobs. To cut a long story short I found myself with no self assteem and no prospects. I was sent to JOBCLUB, a true nightmare ran by an overly friendly Italian woman who wanted to hug everyone. She was far too happy for my liking. She sent me to do an admin course, I gained an NVQ in admin then got a job.

Yes, I hated being forced and I am the worst administrator this side of Swindon, but it lifted me enough to give me some self assteem back and get back into the jobs market/real life. Instead of daytime TV and depression. I was also given a £10 a week incentive to go, which wasn't paid to me if I was late more than once or missed more than a half day. This made all the differnce. So I have to dissagree with the no payments of benefits part, you need the carrot too.

So I'm all for getting people doing stuff as I think long term unemployment really does need to be tackled for the sake of the long term unemployed and their self esteem and growing scemes would be a lovely way of doing it. We have a few great projects in bristol and giving people a task can make a huge change.

National service though, I wince at the words!

[RuthG]

Sorry but there's far too much of this 'you dont have to do it if you dont want to'. The way to learn self discipline is to have it imposed first. National service - and yes, military style for some - would be an excellent thing to do. Children get to do far too much of what they want and drop out whenever they please, because they have never learnt discipline.

As to benefits, these days they are paying kids £30 a week to attend 'college' (FE colleges). When I was 17, we went to school or college for nothing and quite right too! But when it comes to University, young people are having to take out loans and are saddled with between £10k and £30k of debt before they even start. My son is very frugal, but has just finished 5 years at Uni studying law. He got a 1st, but still couldnt get a job - and has two years of post grad debt to pay back straightaway and another three years of undergrad debt which is amassing interest as I type!

Then there are the dead beats who think the world owes them a living while they do precisely nothing. Yes, it makes me angry!

[Milims]

As the mother of teens, both of whom are facing the "real world" very soon, and having watched them, their friends and other teens drift aimlessly along, I think that there is need for some kind of structure and discipline outside the home. As a parent I do my best to teach my children what they need to survive in the real world - not just the pracical stuff like getting washed and how to make a sandwich, but also courtesy, respect and self discipline. However this is very dificult to enforce when it isn't backed up by what's going on outside the home, and is, in fact at times, completely trampled on by people who profess to be experts! I have recently been told of someone who grounded his daughter for inappropriate behaviour and was taken to court by social services for abusing his daughter by removing her liberty! (This was an acquaintance of my OH so not just urban myth) How then are young people supposed to learn and understand that they can't just drift along in life doing just exactly as they want with no understanding of the consequences? I'm not saying that they should all join the army for 2 years after leaving school, but I do think that there should be some kind of cohesive system of ensuring that we aren't over run by self centred brats who think that the world owes them a lving!

[Milims]

Lol! How funny that you and I ended with the same line Ruth!

[MKG]

There is so much that needs to be done around this country which isn't being done because of lack of funding, yet there is a huge spare labour pool doing nothing. So yes, a bit of organisation in that situation could put that pool to work improving life for everyone. That's a form of national service which doesn't involve the military.

Mike

[Green Aura]

But what I still don't understand, even after years of political activity, and doing a politics degree(!) is why, if there are jobs that need doing and people unemployed, aren't these jobs being created and paid for as proper employment instead of all these useless job training (i.e.slave labour) schemes!

BTW when I say I don't understand - I mean morally not intellectually

Niknik's scheme would be brilliant and would probably only need a bit of pump-priming finance until it could be self-financing.

[locum76]

Like I said these schemes already exist, just not very many of them and they're not called national service. For the record, young Germans have to do either military national service or social national service for a year after school. The social type can be done anywhere in the EU and includes volunteering for NGOs.

[misty44]

As to benefits, these days they are paying kids £30 a week to attend 'college' (FE colleges).

I understand people have strong feelings about this but the £30 a week has now been stopped and has caused some considerable difficulties for families. It's a misunderstanding that all students had the full £30 and was given to students to spend on what they wanted to. The amount of money depended upon family income with the majority of students receiving much less than £30 and there were strict guidelines.

For some young people this money was the difference between being able to continue their education and being inactive. In my experience students in genuine hardship were grateful for this support and adhered to the guidelines.

These students are continuing to come to college without the money.

Times are tough and the unemployment figures for 16-24 year olds are increasing on a daily basis. I feel these young people need opportunities and life experience-college is a good place for both.

Misty

[Andy Hamilton]

I'm not against the idea of getting people to do jobs as suggested. In fact with the example I gave of myself I think it would really work- but there must be an element of choice. Those of us in paid employment chose our jobs, I chose the training course I was on. Otherwise what sort of country are we? The people on the courses/in the jobs would certainly resent them and who can blame them?

Don't forget too that the "layabouts" can have all sorts of other social problems that restrict them. Early investment can pay dividends. Take for example how much it costs to put someone on a methadone program or to imprisson them. If instead this money was put into the care system right from when they first enter it, a fraction of the lifetime cost would be spent. So that really is a seperate issue.

I also agree with Misty44. I am sure when I was at college if I'd have been paid to go I would have gone instead of leaving with nothing and going in and out of dead end jobs for 10 years.

Er mind you am I going off the point a little?

[RuthG]

I have no problem with choice within the system. What I think is a bad idea is choice as to whether to opt in or out.

[Nomada]

As to benefits, these days they are paying kids £30 a week to attend 'college' (FE colleges).

Some of mine went to actually getting me to college, which was in another county so not walkable. The rest went into savings for university, as did the money from my job. Meant I could leave without thousands of pounds worth of debt.

[RuthG]

As to benefits, these days they are paying kids £30 a week to attend 'college' (FE colleges).

Some of mine went to actually getting me to college, which was in another county so not walkable. The rest went into savings for university, as did the money from my job. Meant I could leave without thousands of pounds worth of debt.

Unfortunately people like you seem to be few and far between; most of the people my OH teaches prefer to do as little as possible (ie turn up) in order to get the money.

[misty44]

most of the people my OH teaches prefer to do as little as possible (ie turn up) in order to get the money.

I know very well the 'type' of student you refer to but I suppose it depends upon ones perspective. My view would be that students turning up offers an opportunity for teachers and support staff to begin the re-engagement process. Some students will live in communities where a learning culture has long been replaced by the need to simply survive and make ends meet. Our responsibility is to ensure our curriculum, tutorial programme and support mechanisms lead to young people being work ready, have citizenship skills and most importantly aspirations. This can and often does take a few years in some cases.

Misty