Oh no! R.A.T.S!

[bonniethomas06]

Eek we have a big, furry problem.

We saw a rat in our duck enclosure! OH saw it scutter under the duckhouse. We moved it, only to find lots of little rat holes, rat poos and old bits of food. Ewwww!

We promptly dug out the tunnels (didn't find any rats though) to about a foot, and have started a strict regime of feeding the hens (next to the ducks enclosure) and ducks their ration over two feeds, so that there is not a single pellet left during the day or at night. We are also being very careful with cleaning them out and raking up debris.

But what else can we do? This is a major problem, because our landlady is massively phobic about rats and I really don't want to stress her out over it. Also, I can see they have tried to gnaw their way into the duckhouse (but haven't made it...yet).

I looked at some rat poison the other day in a DIY shop. It says that it only works if they eat it twice, and can take up to 14 days to die. Now I know this is a bit soft, but I really don't want to have rats rolling around in agony for two weeks, even if they are rats. My dad says the poison works by causing them to bleed internally I mean, they can't help being rats! It is also conflicting with my pagan-ish outlook - I mean, as much as I don't want them there, I feel bad killing them for my convenience.

This may be a contradiction in terms, but does anyone know of any humane rat traps? or other ways I can persuade Roland and his mates to do one?

[gregorach]

You can certainly buy live-capture traps, but they're not exactly "humane" (a beastie will get plenty stressed out by the experience, and given their small body size, they can become severely dehydrated in a matter of hours) and you've then got the problem of what to do with them once you've caught them... I tend to favour snap-traps for rodents - at least it's quick. (Usually.)

[JulieSherris]

Because of the layout of our place, the farm next door, the many many banks around the place, the woods & the fact that we keep poultry, we too have rats - lots of 'em!

Now, I don't mind them - they're not sewer rats, they're not beach rats (like we used to see in Deal, Kent - <shudder>) but I use snap traps. You're not going to move them on, Bonnie - even if you do catch them alive.
Either get a rat-dog, a good cat, or if you can see where they are coming from, you can use the petrol method & burn them in their holes. Whichever method you use, the outcome has to be the same unfortunately.

We've had to be hard-faced about the problem, and we have a crow problem as well - not easy when your house is practically in the woods, but to stop disease, sometimes you just have to be hard-hearted & get the problem dealt with.

Good luck xx

[Stonehead]

You will have to kill them. As has been said, live-capture traps aren't humane if the rat is left in it for more than a couple of hours and if you do move the rats elsewhere, you're simply dumping the problem on someone else.

I use poison baits but don't like to rely on baits alone as there's then a problem with poisoned carcasses lying about. As we have a pine marten roaming the croft, plus goshawks, buzzards and our dog I don't want any of them poisoned. On the other hand, I don't like leaving snap and Fenn traps set permanently either—there's a risk of killing field voles and/or common shrews as we have both.

Instead, I use professional bait boxes as an indicator of rat activity and to get a head start on any infestations. The boxes contain baits at all times and I check them daily. (The boxes are placed where rats will go but not voles.) If I find baits have been taken, I'll put snap traps under the feed bins, Fenn traps in artificial tunnels (old pipes or wooden ones), get the air rifle out and do some rat stalking, and take our terrier out ratting. Once the infestation is cleared, the snap and Fenn traps are put away.

Oh, and if rats are hungry enough, they will attack injured, poorly or nesting chickens. They eat them alive, usually around the vent or at the bottom of the back, just in front of the tail feathers. I've seen hens with large pieces missing from their backs and still alive. Not pleasant.

[bonniethomas06]

Hmm, thank you guys.

I think it sounds like snap-traps are kinder than the poison traps and better for the wildlife, provided we put them under the duck house where nothing else can get at them.

I still hate the thought of it though Will get on fleabay and order some tonight.

Thanks again,

Bonnie

[greenorelse]

Rats are extremely intelligent and wary of anything new, which is why poison is usually ineffective.

Is there any way at all you can physically exclude them from your property or, at least, from the parts you want to protect? Efforts in that direction now could save a re-occurrence of the problem.

Even if it means using some kind of mesh fence sunk into the ground, long-term it has to be simpler than trying to control re-infestations, which will happen so long as there's a chance of food for them.

[Stonehead]

Rats are extremely intelligent and wary of anything new, which is why poison is usually ineffective.

Is there any way at all you can physically exclude them from your property or, at least, from the parts you want to protect? Efforts in that direction now could save a re-occurrence of the problem.

Even if it means using some kind of mesh fence sunk into the ground, long-term it has to be simpler than trying to control re-infestations, which will happen so long as there's a chance of food for them.

Actually, modern anticoagulant rodenticides are very effective, which is why professional pest controllers use them. The main thing is to be patient. If bait stations are put down when rats are already established, they will be wary of them and it will take several days or more before the rats start taking the baits. After that, it will take quite a few days for the poison to take effect—especially if the largest rats take the bait and stash it elsewhere.

But if the bait stations are down permanently, as ours are, they form part of the existing environment when rats move on to the croft. They start taking bait very quickly.

As for excluding rats with barriers, it's almost impossible. We've had rats gnaw through the mortared joints in stone walls—both lime and cement mortars, through galvanised steel sheeting, through wire mesh, and through bitumen. Thick, reinforced concrete stops them, as do granite and ironstone blocks. Hardwood and thick plastic (eg 200-litre drums) barely slow them, while softwood and thin plastics are just snacks. Oh, and rats love the insulating foam sleeves we put on our water pipes.

Sinking barriers into the ground doesn't work either. We've had rats dig under the stone walls of our outbuildings, going down 2-3 feet.

Our livestock feeds are in steel bins with secure lids so there's not much food for attract them and we only feed what the animals will consume in one go. But we still get rats because the buildings provide good shelter from the winter cold and from predators. Most of our infestations occur when there's a sudden cold snap—below -10C or so—or when the nearby farms muck out their cattle courts.

[oldjerry]

echo all the above,I don't like poison,but have used it to good effect they simply HAVE to be controlled.The true rural method is to have a good cat(ours has just been rehomed,cos it's not fair to take her abroad,she kills on average 3 rats a week) or a small terrier(JR or Patterdale).Ratting parties,with a few mates 6or 7 dogs and a few bottles of cider,and a few quid wagered,is better entertainment than anything the BBc has ever had to offer. No dog?.....Air Rifle. BW.

[greenorelse]

Rats are extremely intelligent and wary of anything new, which is why poison is usually ineffective.

Is there any way at all you can physically exclude them from your property or, at least, from the parts you want to protect? Efforts in that direction now could save a re-occurrence of the problem.

Even if it means using some kind of mesh fence sunk into the ground, long-term it has to be simpler than trying to control re-infestations, which will happen so long as there's a chance of food for them.

Actually...courts.

Well, that told me!

Whatever rats can or can't do, all animals will go for the easy option. Barring them from food you don't want them to have is worth a try. The prey controls the predator.

Stay cool.

[bonniethomas06]

Unfortunately barring them is not really an option as it is outside in our field - the food is kept out of reach in a bin in our garage, and we haven't had a problem there yet.

I would love a cat OJ, but despite being in a small village with fields beind our house for miles, we are right next to a road and lost a cat last year which broke our hearts, so no chance of risking another one. Next door has a JR but (and I know this is not going to go down very well with you farmer types) I am frankly far too squeamish to start watching rats getting chewed up - likewise the air rifle. I have ordered a rat zapper from fleabay which will give them a quick, painless electric shock instead!!

P.s I hope you don't come back as a rat!!

[thesunflowergal]

Hi Bonnie
Hope you and the man are well .
We had a really bad winter with vermin, rats and nits luckly both issues are sorted now! We ended up having to poison the rats as all the other ideas would not work for us. Even the cats where struggling to catch them as they had a large run of tunnels under my neighbours shed, under my chicken house and then under the deck. These are all next to each other in a long line. I put the poison in jam jars with bits of broken terrocota pot over the top to stop the chickens etc from getting in. I think my problem was that I was scatter feeding the chickens corn, sometimes I was a bit too late going out and it was getting left over night.
Good luck hope you get it sorted.
Come over for a cuppa soon xx

[battybird]

We had a problem in the barn last winter..could hear the rats running around & eating our insulation above our heads. They got in between the tiles and insulation and although OH assured me they were not likely to drop on me during the night, it drove me mad knowing they were there and hearing them. Previously we had seen a snake going in to the space and thought that was why we had never had a problem with rodents despite leaving the barn unoccupied for long periods. It started after a very cold period and we did think the snake had gone. Tried the humane catchers and caught a couple the first night...never again...they had tried to chew their way out, there was blood around where they had scratched and chewed, they were nearly dead by the time I found them. When I took them to be released the other side of the valley, I am quite convinced that they just died where I left them in the hedgerow. Bought snap traps that day, at least its a really humane way of killing them! Had to leave poison under the roof tiles when we left (were not coming back for few months)and there was no sign of them when we went back a fortnight ago. I think we have a snake back now living in the roof so hopefully that will keep the blighters at bay..heard him slithering about, much nicer than scratching and chewing sounds.
Has anyone tried those sonic deterrents? Not an option unless you have mains electric and a bit expensive but if they worked it might pay over time and would be humane (other than rats/ mice with headaches!)

[Saffron]

Snap traps are the best, as everyone has said here. Our latest visitation was earlier this year. We put out two 'humane' traps, but only caught rats in the snappers. They were living under a wood/stone pile under a big fir tree; we moved the stuff and dug the nest up and out came five rats!!! My son shot one, OH killed one with a stick and we eventually caught the others in the traps. Haven't seen any for a while, though I am sure they will be back. Not so keen on poison due to other animals being around. Sadly rats and animal feed seem to go together.

[niknik]

Are there no plants that deter rats?, I dont have a rtproblem or even seen one nearby, but mice........ and the cats ignore them, but mice dont like mint.and that seems to have done the trick.

[MKG]

Very little deters rats. They're where they are (and they are, literally, all over the place) because it's advantageous to them in one way or another. You have to get rid of the ones you have (and the only way to do that is to kill them), and then you have to set about making your habitat rat-unfriendly (make sure there's nothing tasty (to a rat) that they can get at; make sure there are as few cosy hidey-holes as possible; anything else you can think of). Rats really are intelligent, and they'll very soon work out that there are better places to be.

We live very near to farm buildings where cattle feed is kept and where manure heaps are formed. The rats love it there. Even so, we get the occasional visit. I then run up the garden shouting and waving my arms in the air. The visiting rat runs like hell - always in the same direction, directly towards those farm buildings. So the visits are out of pure curiosity. But there's nothing in our garden which can compete with the Rat Hilton on the farm. That's the kind of situation to aim for.

Mike