With apologies to all Vegans

[grubbysoles]

Wow, what an interesting read this thread is! There seems to be a common current of agreement in giving the animal a decent life, as stress-free a death as possible, and minimising waste.

Just over a year ago I turned vegan (-ish!). I have become the person I used to laugh at, but I still struggle with the philosophy of it every day. I'm a thinker! For me I don't really have an issue with humans eating animals, I just massively disagree with this oversized, conveyer belt kind of meat production that we now have. If I had the set-up to raise a couple of cows of my own and then slaughter them, I think I probably could do it, but I'm not in a position to do that. Which leaves me with 2 options: a) buy mass-produced meat in the supermarket or b) buy organic meat from a local farm - something that's had a half decent life and death. I don't have the money for option B, and I simply don't approve of mass-farming, so I just gave up on meat altogether. Same with dairy - I would be happy if one of my cows had a calf, had it with her, and I just squeezed out a bit of extra milk for the cereal in the morning, but mass dairy farming doesn't work like that. I don't want to add to the demand for cows to be inpregnated again and again and again, and have each calf removed within 24-48 hours so that I can drink a product which isn't even meant for humans. I find it all very strange.

I don't kill spiders or bugs, I would eat the good parts of slug damaged veg, I don't put any poisons down on my veg patch. But having said all that, the cat recently had fleas and, let me tell you, I crushed every little bugger I could find, hoovered incessantly and sprayed an awful lot of flea spray everywhere! Which I suppose makes me a massive hypocrite, but I just couldn't find a way to co-exist with fleas. They cause misery, whereas a cow or a pig doesn't cause me or my cat any misery. I don't NEED to eat meat or dairy - eating them is pleasure, not necessity, and I don't want to be causing things to die for my pleasure. Some people NEED to farm and fish and consume dairy to survive, but I don't. So I don't.

And having said all of THAT, the rest of my family are meat eaters, so I do still have to buy and cook meat for them. I can't afford to always buy organic, but I do buy it when it's on special offer or in the bargain bin, I don't buy processed meat products and I never buy foreign meat. So I try to make the meat-buying that I DO have to do as ethical but cost-effective as possible. But everyday I do still question my own ethics and say to myself, 'why don't I just eat meat?'!

For the record - I spent some time a few years back working on a cattle ranch in Montana. I attended slaughter, I skinned the cows, I helped at branding (which IS barbaric), I castrated calves, and I spent many, many hours doing butchering. I had absolutely no problem with this at all, perhaps because where I was this was the life and what needed to be done. I was a fairly useless butcher though, it's quite a skill!

[greenorelse]

Fair play to you grubbysoles. A good post.

For the record - I spent some time a few years back working on a cattle ranch in Montana. I attended slaughter, I skinned the cows, I helped at branding (which IS barbaric), I castrated calves, and I spent many, many hours doing butchering.

Funny how you'd be prosecuted for treating dogs they way cattle and pigs and chickens and the like are treated.

[grubbysoles]

Greenorelse,

The moment I 'clicked' that it's insane to treat one animal in one way and consider the same treatment unacceptable for another animal, is the moment I decided to turn veggie. My boyfriend was telling me about a programme on tv (Kill It, SKin It, Wear It) where they were skinning a seal - ALIVE - I almost threw up. Then I thought, what's the difference? He's doing it because in his country there's a demand for the end product and he needs to feed his family. Blokes in massive, stress-inducing slaughter-houses are doing their job because there's a demand for the end product, regardless of how kind or cruel the processes are. At that point I decided to remove myself from adding to the demand.

I just can't be one of those people who plod on through life doing everything because it's normal, I have to understand WHY I'm doing things. It's very annoying, and I set myself up for much ridicule in going against the grain! Until it comes to fleas....

[greenorelse]

I just can't be one of those people who plod on through life doing everything because it's normal, I have to understand WHY I'm doing things.

Careful with the word 'normal'. I understand your gist in this case. But some people might end up thinking you were normal and now you're not. Tis vice versa.

Maybe 'popular'? As in The Sun. It's popular and it's total shite.

[grubbysoles]

Ha ha, yes, I see your point! I think vegetarianism is considered pretty 'normal' now, but people will need a little while longer to come around to veganism. Perhaps another 20 years and the 'do you weigh 3 stone?' and 'you'll collapse' comments might come to an end.

[oldjerry]

Funny how you'd be prosecuted for treating dogs they way cattle and pigs and chickens and the like are treated.[/quote]


You dont need to be vegan to agree with that.
I'd also prosecute people who treat animals as though they were human,the conceit that's the basis of anthropomorphism is the same as that which justifys factory farming methods.