Any legal-minded bods out there?

[Green Aura]

We have ourselves a bit of a situation and any advice to help us resolve it would be welcome.

A building, in the village, has been lying empty for at least 5 years and is in a terrible state. The owner is elderly (and mentally infirm) and has a legal guardian to look after things. Anyway, through another village matter, we were contacted by the solicitor saying they wanted to sell this property.

Our daughter, who moved in with us in March, has been looking for somewhere to live and this property would not only have given her somewhere to live but also a potential income - it has a shop attached. So we made an offer and had it accepted.

This is where it gets complicated, but bear with me. The English solicitor can't do the legal stuff around selling a Scottish property so there is a Scottish solicitor also involved. Anyway, on the strength of having our offer accepted we contacted our solicitor, took out a bank loan and borrowed a further, smaller amount, from my mother.

Our solicitor put in the formal offer - about 6 weeks ago - and has heard nothing since! The English solicitors don't answer our queries and haven't contacted their Scottish counterparts to confirm the offer has been accepted. We have no idea what is going on and have no idea how to proceed.

I have a few thoughts on what might have happened in the meantime
- the Scottish solicitor may have indicated they could get more money by putting it on the market but as that hasn't happened it seems unlikely
- the English solicitor may have accepted our offer, thinking it would be agreed by their client, which wasn't then given. But they'd only need to contact the Scottish solicitors and let them know and the whole thing could have been stopped.
- the English solicitor is just bent and thought we'd hand over a cheque (surely no-one's that stupid).
-the clients may have changed their mind (but again there would be no reason to not tell us)

In the meantime, we've engaged the services of a solicitor we may not need and are paying back interest on a loan which is just sitting in our bank account. We can't look elsewhere because if they do accept our offer it's legally binding. And another winter without being made watertight will add yet more damage to the building +it's getting to the point now where it'll be too late soon to do any external work because of the weather. And after all that we still would like the place - it is perfect for our needs.

I'm not sure what advice I'm asking for - but any suggestions as to how we move things on? Plus if it all comes to nothing - any ideas who we complain to about the English solicitor? I had a look at the legal Ombudsman info - it's not clear if you can complain about someone else's solicitor. But, for the first time ever (I hate our compensation culture) I really want to make sure we get compensated if it all goes belly up.

[Susie]

This might be a stupid question but, can you ring the Scottish solicitor direct to see what is happening? (I know that doesn't solve your problem but it would give you more info).

[Green Aura]

Our solicitor told us at the outset that we shouldn't contact the other parties solicitor. Plus they've had it in writing that the other lot have heard nothing from their English colleagues.

It all just seems so bizarre.

We were contacted because they wanted us to pass the info round the village, which we did - they wanted a quick sale. Had they acted promptly we'd have owned it by now!

[MKG]

"So we made an offer and had it accepted" ... is, as far as I'm aware, all that is necessary under Scottish law to make it a binding contract. Whether the solicitors have been in contact with one another (although typical) should be irrelevant. If I were you, I would ignore your English solicitor and contact the other party's solicitor directly to ensure that it is known that you have made that offer and had it accepted.

Mike

[Green Aura]

We don't have an English solicitor, Mike - the vendors do. That's why we're up the proverbial - there's been no offer accepted in Scottish Legal Form. So it's not legally binding.

[fifi folle]

I really hope this works out well, the problem may be that the legal guardian has to be seen to get the most money for the property possible (acting in the best interests of the owner) in which case a sale on the open market would be likely. However the fact it's the solicitor (English or Scottish?) who has contacted you about a quick sale would suggest it's not going to the market (saving money on fees etc). This situation sounds really difficult. What is your solicitor saying? Have they contacted the scottish solicitors?

I would be getting my solicitor to chase this up (it's in their interests as they would end up getting paid fees!) Good luck!

[Susie]

Do you have any contact with the vendors themselves? I would have thought if not, your next step should be for your solicitor to send a very strongly-worded letter to the English solicitors, copied to the Scottish solicitors, giving a deadline by which you need a response, and saying what you've said (especially the bit about the building not being watertight and they'll get less money if they try to sell it to someone else next year). Would that do anything do you think? (I know it would cost more money ).

It sounds to me as if either the English solicitors have the letter in someone's intray or there is some family infighting on the vendors' side. I hope it gets resolved for you soon!

[Thomzo]

Hi
Yes Susie's advice is sound, the important thing from your side is to put a deadline on the whole thing. Do as she says, set a deadline and state that you will be pulling out of the deal on the basis that they have not fulfilled their side of the contract. Surely Scottish law must have some precedent for a situation where the vendor doesn't complete their side of the agreement. Your solicitor should be able to tell you this.

Good luck
Zoe

[MKG]

We don't have an English solicitor, Mike - the vendors do. That's why we're up the proverbial - there's been no offer accepted in Scottish Legal Form. So it's not legally binding.

I'm confused, then. Exactly who accepted your offer - or, at least, gave you the impression that your offer had been accepted?

Mike

[Green Aura]

The person who owned the house is institutionalised and has an English solicitor who deals with the estate. They approached me - I'd contacted them about a village matter so they had my email address. They're the ones who accepted our offer but it has no standing in law until accepted on Scottish legal form that then constitutes a contract.

Complicated? It's driving us bananas. We did a little detective work after I posted this thread - the solicitor has moved to another practice. I've emailed him at his new firm (that should freak him out) and I've emailed his old firm with copies of all his emails.

So we now have to wait and see.

Oh and we heard this afternoon that someone else is thinking of putting in an offer.

[MKG]

I see.

Well, if the English bod is doing his/her job properly (a solicitor - Ho Ho) then he/she will be obliged to forward details of all offers - and yours will be first in line. But I do now appreciate the problem. Having the English connection certainly complicates the issue or, at least, appears to do so. I'm not so sure, though - the estate dealings are, I assume, being pursued under Scottish law, you have made an offer and it has been accepted - albeit by someone from England. But the estate dealings must, I feel, fall under Scottish law, so it shouldn't really matter if the solicitor was from Outer Mongolia.

As far as I can see, the English solicitor is the representative under Scottish law of a client resident in Scotland wishing to publicly dispose of an estate situated in Scotland. That would make your offer and the acceptance binding. The only way around that which seems even vaguely realistic is that the sale is being pursued under English law by the English solicitor, and I'm not at all sure if that would be even remotely licit unless the entire transaction was removed from the public arena - which it very obviously has not been.

My gut feeling is that as long as the English solicitor acknowledges your offer (do you have proof of that acceptance?), you're home and dry. I really, really, hope I'm right.

Mike

[Millymollymandy]

I'm totally and utterly confused ( ) so can't say anything worthwhile whatsoever but just a hug and I hope it all works out in the end! Bloody solicitors!!

[bonniethomas06]

This might be the wrong time to admit that I qualified yesterday! *ducks head to avoid numerous eggs and tomatoes*

However I am a little baffled too - although it is against protocol that you should contact the other side's solicitors directly, it is not unheard of, particularly if you copy your old solicitor in and say something along the lines of 'after numerous attempts to contact X, we feel we have no option but to contact you directly'.

It sounds to me as if the solicitor you engaged in the first place (who has moved) has failed to pass your case to someone else at his/her old firm.

I can't comment on the cross-juristictional issue though I am afraid - scottish law is like cryptonite to english solicitors!!

Your best bet in my view is to bombard your english solicitors firm with emails and telephone calls, and ask to speak to the senior partner to complain. Unfortunately in most cases it is the clients who shout the loudest whose cases get dealt with the fastest.

Not the case for my clients though, obviously!!

[Susie]

This might be the wrong time to admit that I qualified yesterday! *ducks head to avoid numerous eggs and tomatoes*

Congratulations! Very well done, the world definitely needs more Ishy solicitors!

[KathyLauren]

The person who owned the house is institutionalised and has an English solicitor who deals with the estate. They approached me - I'd contacted them about a village matter so they had my email address. They're the ones who accepted our offer but it has no standing in law until accepted on Scottish legal form that then constitutes a contract.

Complicated? It's driving us bananas. We did a little detective work after I posted this thread - the solicitor has moved to another practice. I've emailed him at his new firm (that should freak him out) and I've emailed his old firm with copies of all his emails.

So we now have to wait and see.

Oh and we heard this afternoon that someone else is thinking of putting in an offer.

I don't want to alarm you, but it is time to get alarmed about this situation. The situation sounds fishy - you might have been had. Important point: has any money changed hands? If you paid a deposit on the transaction and the alleged solicitor is not legitimate, you can probably kiss that money goodbye.

First , you need to save every piece of information you have about this transaction. Print out and save every email, find and save every letter that has changed hands. You need to start documenting this. Then find out everything you can about this alleged English solicitor. Is he or she legitimate? Check with the Bar Society or whatever your equivalent is over there to see if they have even heard of him or her.

If the alleged solicitor is legitimate, then send a strongly worded letter demanding to know the status of the transaction. If you do not get a prompt response, you may want to find a real solicitor to pursue legal action. If you cannot verify the legitimacy of the alleged solicitor, you should contact the police fraud unit and report the situation.