save me from hollywood

[Stonehead]

I think Russell Crowe must have decided that as the man of the people, he would badly mimic almost every regional accent in the UK. In some parts he sounds Irish, then Welsh, with hints of scouse and Yorkshire thrown in for good measure .

That's fairly typical for Aussies and Kiwis. Our pronunciation is a mixed up jumble of English, Irish, Welsh and Scots languages/dialects, plus Aboriginal languages, plus Italian, German, Swedish, Arabic, Vietnamese, Chinese, Spanish and just about any other language you can think of. Aussies then put one spin on the result, the Kiwis another.

When we come to the UK, we're told we're bad mimics of British regional accents. We're not. We're just speaking a mixed grab bag of bits and pieces that reflect our origins. In my own case, my speech has direct, famililial influences from Lallans, Irish Gaelic, Scottish Gaelic, Cornish, Northumbrian, Welsh, southern English (specifically east Sussex) and Swedish. As I've moved around the UK, I've discovered where fragments of my vocabulary originate from. The best bit is when elderly people suddenly recognise that I'm using words, phrases and pronunciations that their parents or grandparents used.

So before jumping in to criticise Aussies and Kiwis as bad mimics of British accents, people should bear in mind that our speech reflects our very mixed origins and that we're actually preserving some forms of speech that have disappeared in the UK.

[Stonehead]

loads of lost children running around rural England

We watched it recently too, and at the end of it I said to the OH, "What was going on with the lost children?" It felt like they'd been filming Robin Hood on a set next to the one for Peter Pan and some of the extras got mixed up.

As for the rest, I'm prepared to overlook a lot of "inaccuracies" in a film if there's a good story told well. I want to be entertained, after all. If I want to be informed, I'll look elsewhere. Did Robin Hood succeed in that? Well, it was passable. No more, no less.

[contadina]

You've a good point Stonehead. I went to Fijian island once and there were quite a few Aussies and Kiwis there. I was quite struck by odd phrases with English accents used. One retired kiwi who had emigrated when he was a small boy still said certain words in a broad Yorkshire accent but big budget films have speech trainers on set, Crowe should have been trained to stick to just the one or just use his regular accent as it would have been less distracting.

[MKG]

And come to think of it, Robin Hood, had he ever existed, would have spoken a version of late Old English or early Middle English, so modern dialects don't really come into it. Perhaps the film should have been made in that language. Might have made it better.

Mike

[Millymollymandy]

I hope they cast Renee Zellweger as Maid Marion cos she can do a good English accent! I never even realised she was American until after I'd watched Bridget Jones and saw her being interviewed (and she was skinny then too!). I didn't like her as her.

[old tree man]

Mind you every film that sean connery does his accent is the same even when he was a Russian sub captain and do you remember Keanu reeve accent in dracula , i dare say the Americans are saying the same thing about Bob hoskins accent in the Roger rabbit films

[Stonehead]

And come to think of it, Robin Hood, had he ever existed, would have spoken a version of late Old English or early Middle English, so modern dialects don't really come into it. Perhaps the film should have been made in that language. Might have made it better.

Middle English, and probably the dialect as spoken around Barnsdale. Along the lines of these...

A Gest of Robyn Hode

Lythe and listin, gentilmen,
That be of frebore blode;
I shall you tel of a gode yeman,
His name was Robyn Hode.

Robyn was a prude outlaw,
Whyles he walked on grounde:
So curteyse an outlawe as he was one
Was nevere non founde.

Robyn stode in Bernesdale,
And lenyd hym to a tre,
And bi hym stode Litell Johnn,
A gode yeman was he.

And alsoo dyd gode Scarlok,
And Much, the millers son:
There was none ynch of his bodi
But it was worth a grome...

Also Robin Hood and the Potter

In schomer, when the leves spryng,
The bloschoms on every bowe,
So merey doyt the berdys syng
Yn wodys merey now.

Herkens, god yemen,
Comley, corteys, and god,
On of the best that yever bare bowe,
Hes name was Roben Hode.

Roben Hood was the yemans name,
That was boyt corteys and fre;
For the loffe of owre ladey,
All wemen werschepyd he.

Bot as the god yeman stod on a day,
Among hes mery maney,
He was ware of a prowd potter,
Cam dryfyng owyr the leye.

"Yonder comet a prod potter," seyde Roben,
"That long hayt hantyd this wey;
He was never so corteys a man
On peney of pawage to pay."

"Y met hem bot at Wentbreg," seyde Lytyll John,
"And therefore yeffell mot he the!
Seche thre strokes he me gafe,
Yet by my seydys cleffe they...

I studied Middle English ballads in Year 11. And Latin satires and epigrams. We're not total oiks in Oz! :D

[MKG]

Yep - that's the language they used when they wrote the tales (1450 and 1500 respectively). But Robin was alleged to have been running through the trees in the 1190s. That's very cuspish for the onset of Middle English - hence my "late Old English or early Middle English" comment.

Even so, I still think a Robin epic made in whatever dialect he is supposed to have spoken just might catch on - after all, people nowadays get positively orgasmic when Beowulf is read in its original language.

And bugger Barnsdale. Robin was a Nottinghamshire lad and I can prove it (well, when I say prove, what i mean .... ).

Mike

[Stonehead]

Yep - that's the language they used when they wrote the tales (1450 and 1500 respectively). But Robin was alleged to have been running through the trees in the 1190s. That's very cuspish for the onset of Middle English - hence my "late Old English or early Middle English" comment.

What about the reference to "Edwarde, our comly kynge"? I think that's believed to narrow down to one of Edward I, Edward II or Edward III. And it was Edward II who went north to deal with a rebellion: that of Thomas, Earl of Lancaster. The rebellion was in 1322 with the handful of surviving rebels outlawed. They hid in the dales. On top of that, Sir Henry de Faucumberg was the shire reeve of Nottingham and High Reeve of Yorkshire at the time, and played in a key role in putting down the rebellion.

So, instead of 1190s, we're talking early to mid 1300s. Middle English.

(We could argue this for years! )

[Susie]

I had to do Middle English (and Old English!) for my degree and I hated it (I hated Middle English, I didn't mind Old English so much. Hwaet).

You are making me have traumatic flashbacks. If anyone mentions the Owl and the Nightingale or bloody Piers Plowman I might have to go and lie down with a cold flannel over my eyes.

[Wombat]

hey don't don't dish the kiwi's wombat you can't pick and choose which new zealanders you want, if we have to have russel crowe back, then so too with phalap, splitenz, crowded house and pavlova. hollywood did a terrible movie staring steve guttenburg where he played a kiwi with a terrible aussie accent, they can't veven get disaster movies right as the hero manages to cross a three thousand mile journey in a day and the planet survives a disaster that by physical laws would tear it apart. but if you want accuracy read a book

Oi! I never said nuffin! (besides, pavlova is ours! Ours I tells ya!)

Nev

[MKG]

What about the reference to "Edwarde, our comly kynge"? I think that's believed to narrow down to one of Edward I, Edward II or Edward III. And it was Edward II who went north to deal with a rebellion: that of Thomas, Earl of Lancaster. The rebellion was in 1322 with the handful of surviving rebels outlawed. They hid in the dales. On top of that, Sir Henry de Faucumberg was the shire reeve of Nottingham and High Reeve of Yorkshire at the time, and played in a key role in putting down the rebellion.

So, instead of 1190s, we're talking early to mid 1300s. Middle English.

(We could argue this for years! )

We could. It all depends upon whether "most authorities" can possibly justify placing old Bob in the reign of Edward on the evidence of a 15th century minstrel's rhyming scheme. I prefer the 16th century interpretation which puts him firmly in Richard's (as in Lionheart) reign. Much more romantic. Anyway, I live in the "Blith" of the tales and happen to know that it would have been difficult for Robin to pass through in Edward's reign (and there was only one way) because it was heavily fortified against outlaws who frequented ....

Oh... hang on ....

Mike

[sleepyowl]

I thought you meant you were in Birmingham

[fumanchu]

You think an Australian Wallace is bad - I nearly had to get resussed after watching Rob Roy with Liam Neeson !

[mrsflibble]

I refuse to watch ANY hollywood retelling of Robin Hood. I'm from nottingham, I WILL NOT have his name sullied lol!!!