Chickens; ex-batt or not?

[Northern Boy]

Hi.

I'm in the process of preparing a chicken coop and am looking around for a place to get chickens. They will be both for egg-laying and, eventually, chicken pie.

I originally thought of getting ex-batts, but the more I think about it, the less I like it. I strongly dislike battery-farming and feel that, by adopting ex-batts, I'm supporting the process. The battery farmers are paid for the chickens.

?

[Millymollymandy]

Are these going to be your first ever hens? Someone, somewhere on this forum recommended not gettng ex batts as your first ones as they need a bit more TLC. Also they've already had a year of laying and may only have another year or so left in them. I'd go for non ex-batts myself and then when you find yourself adding more hens at a later stage (which I'm sure you will, as everyone gets bitten by the bug ) you'll have more experience.

[Ron and Jean]

Our first hens were ex bats and they are great. I don't think they needed that much TLC, but we did keep a close eye on them initially. For example making sure they went inside when it rained, and all had access to food. We are getting 6 eggs/week from each hen and their feathers are regrowing. They also now lay their eggs in the nest boxes (with the occasional one in a random muddy place).

I don't see getting ex-bats as supporting the battery trade. I am not sure if the farmers get paid for the hens, but if they didn't get re-homed they would be sold and turned into dog food or chicken nuggets or something similar. The farmers get rid of them after a year as they start laying slightly less eggs. To me it is better to give them a happy home rather than be slaughtered.

The Battery Hen Welfare Trust has an information packed website: www.bhwt.org.uk/

Our thoughts were to get ex-bats first and if they didn't lay that well to get some POL's. I am glad we got ex-bats and would do the same again.

Good luck.

[red]

I don't think getting ex batts is actually supporting the industry.. but you can argue that buying froma traditional set up is supporting that way of life.. that's how I see it.

If you still want hybrids - thy are better layers, you can still buy them from traditional set ups

[Thomzo]

You can get ex-free range hens. I know a couple of farms in Oxfordshire and Gloucestershire that do rehome free-range hens but that's probably a bit far from you.

Ex-bats (and ex-free range) will stop laying earlier so it depends why you want the hens. I don't think they need any extra TLC though and they are far cheaper than point of lays.

Zoe

[poet]

Well, if you plan to eat them then you're better off with a dual purpose breed. You're not going to get much meat off an ex batt, they're simply not bred for the table and, IMO, deserve to live out their days once rescued.

We've had 7 ex batts so far, plus normal egg laying hybrids and a cple of pure breed bantams. I get very attached to my girls and they all have names and i couldn't even consider eating them, they're more like pets! That's not to say I'm not pragmatic, I've been on a 'kill, pluck and gut' course as we were considering raising our own table birds at one point.

Rehoming ex batts is a totally worthy thing to do, these girls deserve to live out their days in comfort and being allowed to be 'real' chickens; dust bathing, sun bathing, eating grass, scratching for worms etc etc. The farmers would get paid for their spent hens regardless of whether they were rehomed or sent to the processed food market.

One thing I will say is that ex batts can be more prone to peritonitis because of the conditions they have been kept, i.e. artificial light to make them lay more than their little bodies can cope with and we have spent a fair few quid on baytril etc for our poorly girls. In the future we are considering despatching any girls showing signs of peritonitis ourselves, whether we'll be able to when the time comes i don't know because as I say, you do get attached to them.

Rehoming/rescuing ex batts is something I would encourage people to do, these girls deserve to feel the sun on their backs, breathe fresh air and sleep in peac and quiet in a comfortable nest box. They're very special ladies and I love mine dearly but I don't think they're for you, let them go to a home where they can be pampered and get a dual purpose bird, a breeder could advise you which breeds are more suited to your needs.

[TrallwmFarm]

Untill you said you intended eating them I was going to let you in on a little secret.

Actually most sanctuaries have chickens etc
We do as we take anything up to 200 a time.
So always ask at your local sanctuary first. I cant imagine the hen trust being happy about thiers being eaten either but it is possible to buy direct from the egg producers but yes the comment about it helps to support the trade is true if they are being bought from producers.
Real sanctuaries do not buy but simply take in animals for what ever reason.
I have just had organic free range birds and Im just about to take in some free rangers from a nice man having to sell his farm. We get Turkeys,Cattle,Sheep,pigs and goats but none of these are rehomed to be eaten.
http://trallwmfarm.org.uk
We are in Carmarthenshire.

[Northern Boy]

Well, let me clarify. We are not planning on getting chickens just to eat. We want eggs and I am very attached to the idea of providing a home for rescused battery chickens.

But it bothers me that, in a free market, the farmer is going to sell to the highest bidder. If people like me offer a higher price than the chicken pie company, then we are actually driving up the price of battery chickens and maintaining the industry, meaning more battery chickens will be reared in future.

But, I guess I can balance that with the thought that our ex-batts will lay enough eggs for us to provide to others, who may otherwise have eaten battery eggs.

As for the "eating" issue. Like I said, chicken pie is not the goal, the goal is omlette. But, when it comes to the end...... I'd rather the chickens went into coq au vin than went to waste. (I won't actually be eating them anyway, being vegetarian....ish, but I'd rather someone did). Of course, our opinion may well change when we've had them for a while and they become like pets.

If I can ever get hold of someone at the BHWT, or persuade them to answer my emails, then I might be able to find out

[red]

i think its a realistic point of view.. a hen only lays eggs for part of it life. .. after that you have to decide whether you are running a home for geriatric chickens or bump them off - make the best use of them and get some fresh birds.

i understand if they are pets, then they get a home for life (we have a flock of 14, one of which is my sons pet hen whitey. Whitey is likely to stay the longest!) I do worry that many people get into the 'rescuing' of battery hens, without realising there will come a time that they have hens that don't lay, and no more space for new ones that do.

do the rescue batt hens organisations really hope to rehome all the hens and let them live until natural causes take them out? just seems to me this is impossible. it might be workign at the mo - as lots of people are getting into keeping chickens.. but soon that market will be saturated.

Seems like you have worked it out.. and yes.. if you or an organisation are *buying* ex batt hens.. then it might be promoting the industry. Like I said above, you could promote the traditional chicken raising industry instead.

We have a couple of older birds that are destined to be soup.. only reason they are still with us is the lack of freezer space..

[poet]

battery hens can go on and live 12 months or more after they stop laying, let them live out the rest of their life with someone who can give them the 'retirement' they deserve. they don't deserve to be eaten as soon as their egg laying stops and they're not suitable for that anyway.

as i already said, they wouldn't be suitable as table birds anyway. choose a dual purpose breed.

the farmers don't go into a bidding war btwn the rescue organisations and the processed food industry. they sell to one or the other, the price doesn't go up just because they sell to the bhwt for example. the BHWT doesn't charge a 'price' so to speak anyway, they ask for donations. we generally donate £5 per bird that we rehome.

We’ve had 7 ex batts so far; 4 to start with and when they stopped laying we bought 2 hybrids from a breeder. sadly we lost 3 of our original girls to peritonitis so we have now adopted another 2 ex batts. we also have 2 Plymouth rock bantams so we have more than enough eggs and are able to give our ex batt girls the life they should always have had. You’re not contributing to the battery industry by adopting them, the industry would go on just the same whether you adopt the ex batts or not. What will make the difference is if people stop buying battery eggs or products containing battery eggs!


I’m not against eating your egg layers by the way, i just don’t think ex batts deserve that fate when they stop laying. I’ll say it again, get a dual purpose breed.

[red]

I’m not against eating your egg layers by the way, i just don’t think ex batts deserve that fate when they stop laying. I’ll say it again, get a dual purpose breed.

however if you cannot give them a retirement, (and they can live a lot longer than 12 months after they stop laying.. they can go on for years and years.. ) killing them and throwing them away would be even more wasteful.

There is not much on an old layer if it is dual purpose or not... the idea of dual purpose really is that you eat the cockerels from a hatch. DP hens tend to be heavier.. but often not as good layers as a laying breed.

if your motive for keeping chickens is to have pets, chose ones you like the look of, from breeds known for good temperaments.

if you motive is to have meat, go for meat breeds

if your motive is to have some meat and some eggs, go dual purpose, or have a mix of bird types

if your motive is to give a happy retirement to ex batts.. go that way, be prepared to have to buy eggs while they live out their lives. Also be prepared to cull them if their old age makes them miserable through illness etc.

if your motive is to have eggs, go for hybrids (rescue, FR or otherwise), and plan to remove the hens once they stop laying - and in my opinion, they still get a better deal then at the pie factory.. a quick death, (not some of the horror stories you hear of), no transporting, no waiting their fate. With ours, they go from being a hen doing hen things to dead within 3 minutes, and 2.9 minutes is us walking away so the other hens don't see it. It is also my opinion that it is wasteful to throw away the body once the deed is done. Whilst there is not much on an old hybrid layer, as I said before, it is still a total waste to throw them away.
It's not about what they 'deserve'.

if you opt to get as many hens as your garden will manage, then they all become geriatrics, and stop laying... and you have to buy your eggs elsewhere, then you are enjoying the luxury of feelign good about giving your birds a retirement, whilst buying your eggs from someone who doesn't

I agree the best way to not support the battery farm system is avoid all their products

[poet]

if your motive is to give a happy retirement to ex batts.. go that way, be prepared to have to buy eggs while they live out their lives. Also be prepared to cull them if their old age makes them miserable through illness etc.

....

Just because they stop laying it doesn’t mean you have to start buying eggs again. When our ex batts stopped laying, we bought a cple of point of lay hybrids. When our ex batts passed away, we replaced them with more ex batts. With thought-out rotation, it’s possible to have your own eggs even if some of your girls have stopped laying.

We only have a small garden and find this perfectly achievable.

I’m not trying to say this is the way it should be done, I’m just pointing out that it is possible.

[red]

Just because they stop laying it doesn’t mean you have to start buying eggs again. When our ex batts stopped laying, we bought a cple of point of lay hybrids. When our ex batts passed away, we replaced them with more ex batts. With thought-out rotation, it’s possible to have your own eggs even if some of your girls have stopped laying.

We only have a small garden and find this perfectly achievable.

I’m not trying to say this is the way it should be done, I’m just pointing out that it is possible.

well, good luck with that. out of interest.. what will you do when your hybrids stop laying?

[poet]

Just because they stop laying it doesn’t mean you have to start buying eggs again. When our ex batts stopped laying, we bought a cple of point of lay hybrids. When our ex batts passed away, we replaced them with more ex batts. With thought-out rotation, it’s possible to have your own eggs even if some of your girls have stopped laying.

We only have a small garden and find this perfectly achievable.

I’m not trying to say this is the way it should be done, I’m just pointing out that it is possible.

well, good luck with that. out of interest.. what will you do when your hybrids stop laying?

I should think by that time we’d have some vacancies in the coop. we have an ex batt girl who has been with us since oct 2007 and not laid for about 12 months. by the tme the hybrids stop laying i expect she’ll have left us by natural causes. We have room for 9 chickens so I expect we’ll get a cple of pure breeds when she’s gone and the hybrids have stopped laying as we have too many eggs at the moment.

[Thomzo]

I've tried to eat an 18 month old hen (the fox had the poor girl's head) and, quite honestly, I wouldn't bother. The meat is so tough that no amount of slow cooking will make it edible. Cook up for stock perhaps, but little point thinking about eating the flesh. Even the cat wouldn't touch it.

Zoe