Doom. Doooom, we're all doomed

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Fifer182
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Re: Doom. Doooom, we're all doomed

Post: # 165154Post Fifer182 »

I do not think people are inherently greedy, it is the system, a system evolved by a rich minority that demands a return on the capital invested, ie. the production of things essentially to make a profit, things are only produced if they make a profit
.

I agree with the fact that it's the 'system' who govern the 'ownership' of resources. I would suggest that they create the need and the desire for more within the populace ( media advertising, withholding resources in order to inflate costs etc)
People as a whole, seem to strive to have more - more land, more assests, more food on their table, more gadgets, more clothes in their wardrobes, more choice of exotic holidays.. more more more.. and in craving so..create more power within the 'system'. So what does the system do?? Create a fear that there will be less in order for those who are in a position to be able to.. hoard more. More is the false sense of security being sold rather than sufficient/enough. Satisfaction on a global level does not exist because of the idea of more. Those with more, can and will take more!
It's the system who've instlilled the 'greed' in the people but it's worth remembering that the 'system' was created and exists because of people. Therefor.. I would still suggest that we humans are on some level, inherently greedy. :wink:

Fifer :flower:

MKG
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Re: Doom. Doooom, we're all doomed

Post: # 165163Post MKG »

Maybe I'm an old cynic, but I'm afraid I don't agree with Graham. People, on the whole, ARE greedy and selfish - it's the nature of the beast. Being Ish is, at the least, genetically selfish - we want to give our children, not someone else's, a better life. Community co-operation is selfish in a subsistence economy (do it or die). It's actually selfishness, I believe, which produces (by transference and sublimation) our best ideas, our best people. Unfortunately, in a developed (ie consumerist) society, it also leads to chavs, Big Brother, hypocrisy, conspicuous consumption, the advertising industry, party politics, loadsamoney, an enforced insistence on allowing violent thickoes to survive even though any genuinely civilised (ie subsistent and co-operative) society would have exiled them (to die, if they hadn't the sense to see sense).

But it's that same selfishness which will eventually see us through, just as soon as said thickoes begin to realise that THEY can't survive by themselves, even though a lot of them are at this moment building the barricades in the woods. When they realise that that's just a game, we may see a change and a willingness to act in a long-term (therefore apparently selfless) way. No matter how selfless it seems, though, it's still the "I want to survive" selfish compunction in operation.

Basically, I suppose, I'm saying that Homo sapiens wouldn't have got into its present position in the first place unless selfishness had been invented. See. Told you I was a cynic.

Mike
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ina
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Re: Doom. Doooom, we're all doomed

Post: # 165165Post ina »

MKG wrote: Basically, I suppose, I'm saying that Homo sapiens wouldn't have got into its present position in the first place unless selfishness had been invented. See. Told you I was a cynic.

Mike
Didn't need to be invented. All animals are basically selfish.
Ina
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Fifer182
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Re: Doom. Doooom, we're all doomed

Post: # 165171Post Fifer182 »

ina wrote:
MKG wrote: Basically, I suppose, I'm saying that Homo sapiens wouldn't have got into its present position in the first place unless selfishness had been invented. See. Told you I was a cynic.

Mike
Didn't need to be invented. All animals are basically selfish.
Eggggsactly!!!! Survival of the fittest... and in our species case... the richest :dave:

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KathyLauren
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Re: Doom. Doooom, we're all doomed

Post: # 165175Post KathyLauren »

Helsbells wrote:
if it wasn't for the fact that a small minority own the vast majority of the land, every family could have 3 acres of agricultural land each. This would be sufficient to provide most of your food and heating, and you would still be able to do 4 days a week working elsewhere.
This is a good statistic, where did you find this out as I would like to pass this info on to some members of my family who just think there are too many people in the world and so some have to starve!!
I would be a bit cautious about passing on that statistic as just a statistic. It is usually misinterpreted.

Perhaps, if all the agricultural land were evenly divided up, there would be enough land to feed everyone. But not if they live a European or American lifestyle. Maybe if they all live an Indian lifestyle. And even then, the land is only as productive as it currently is because of pertoleum-based fuels and fertilizers. So, we also have to divide up all the oil wells, the phosphate mines, etc. to make it work.

And the problem with that is that oil wells and phosphate mines are mines. Meaning that they will run out, and that their use is unsustainable.

So, the simple statistic is quite misleading.

contadino
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Re: Doom. Doooom, we're all doomed

Post: # 165179Post contadino »

KeithBC wrote:
Helsbells wrote:
if it wasn't for the fact that a small minority own the vast majority of the land, every family could have 3 acres of agricultural land each. This would be sufficient to provide most of your food and heating, and you would still be able to do 4 days a week working elsewhere.
This is a good statistic, where did you find this out as I would like to pass this info on to some members of my family who just think there are too many people in the world and so some have to starve!!
I would be a bit cautious about passing on that statistic as just a statistic. It is usually misinterpreted.

Perhaps, if all the agricultural land were evenly divided up, there would be enough land to feed everyone. But not if they live a European or American lifestyle. Maybe if they all live an Indian lifestyle. And even then, the land is only as productive as it currently is because of pertoleum-based fuels and fertilizers. So, we also have to divide up all the oil wells, the phosphate mines, etc. to make it work.

And the problem with that is that oil wells and phosphate mines are mines. Meaning that they will run out, and that their use is unsustainable.

So, the simple statistic is quite misleading.
Not to mention the fact that the majority of land in the UK is poor quality pasture, suitable only for grazing sheep. 3 acres of that sort of land isn't going to feed anyone.

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KathyLauren
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Re: Doom. Doooom, we're all doomed

Post: # 165194Post KathyLauren »

I came across this BBC news story that is relevant to this topic. Cuba is a fascinating example of how to deal with peak oil, because they went through it 20 years ago.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8213617.stm

There is also a 53-minute documentary on Cuba's experience with peak oil, called "The Power of Community: How Cuba Survived Peak Oil", which is well worth watching if you get a chance.

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wolfsong
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Re: Doom. Doooom, we're all doomed

Post: # 165338Post wolfsong »

Two words for you m8, SILLY SEASON, it always comes around.
And I wish society would hurry up with this collapse thingy, it seams to have been hanging in the air for a couple of decades.

Maybe society has already collapsed? This would be my conclusion if my library started stocking books about it.

Easter Island is a very interesting study though...
As I ping from tree to tree I wonder... why do I seem to have transformed into a pinging tree-dwelling thing?

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frozenthunderbolt
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Re: Doom. Doooom, we're all doomed

Post: # 165397Post frozenthunderbolt »

wolfsong wrote: Maybe society has already collapsed? This would be my conclusion if my library started stocking books about it.

Easter Island is a very interesting study though...
true, Jarrod diamond is not a bad start
Jeremy Daniel Meadows. (Jed).

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