growing trees for coppicing for firewood

[lucy.lists]

That's a good idea, thanks Hedgehogpie. I think I'll wait til I've found out more about the Forest Gardening idea, cos I suspect that the book will make it clear that we've got years and years of graft and being patient til we're likely to be eating anything, anyway! That will give me something more specific to ask the soil assoc about.

It's a whole new area that I know nothing about, and I think it shows at the mo :-)

[Hedgehogpie]

You don't need to know everything as long as you never stop learning.

A website that you might not have come across but which I find an invaluable research resource (or even just plain interesting to browse through to be honest) is the Plants for a Future Database:

http://www.pfaf.org/index.php

[Millymollymandy]

I would suggest growing Sycamore - ours must be one of the fastest growing of all our trees and the wood burns really well too. Our only problem is that a lot of our trees are too big for us to cut down! I have so many to 'get rid of' and we'd have free firewood for ever. If only we did 'heights and stuff with chainsaws'.

[Clara]

I would suggest growing Sycamore - ours must be one of the fastest growing of all our trees and the wood burns really well too. Our only problem is that a lot of our trees are too big for us to cut down! I have so many to 'get rid of' and we'd have free firewood for ever. If only we did 'heights and stuff with chainsaws'.

what you need is a tree surgeon, pity we aren´t closer! Still I bet you can find one around. OH is finally starting to get loads of work because the locals are working out that it is always cheaper to get him in than to buy wood imported from other areas (with it´s dubious environmental credentials).

[Millymollymandy]

Sadly I think it would be much cheaper to buy in firewood than pay someone to cut down the trees, then cut it all into nice 50cm lengths and split it!

[Hedgehogpie]

A quick note about the pfaf database I posted a link to - the service appears to be down at the moment due to several problems (see my post about it in the topic above this one). However the ibibilio/pfaf 'mirror' site is still available for searches although its format is very basic:

http://www.ibiblio.org/pfaf/D_search.html

[lucy.lists]

That's the first time I've seen sycamore mentioned, so thanks for that.
Luckily my DH is pretty handy with a chainsaw, so we should be O.K to keep on top of the harvesting - he used to make chainsaw sculptures for a living!

[contadino]

Sadly I think it would be much cheaper to buy in firewood than pay someone to cut down the trees, then cut it all into nice 50cm lengths and split it!

That's not the case here. I paid a specialist €160 to prune 6 of the largest and most complicated olive trees this year, and the by-product was just over 10 quintali of firewood of stove thickness. We use approx 4 per year for the stove, so I'll sell on the rest for the market price of €25/quintali.

Edit: Sorry, a quintali is 100 kilos

[Clara]

Sadly I think it would be much cheaper to buy in firewood than pay someone to cut down the trees, then cut it all into nice 50cm lengths and split it!

That's not the case here. I paid a specialist €160 to prune 6 of the largest and most complicated olive trees this year, and the by-product was just over 10 quintali of firewood of stove thickness. We use approx 4 per year for the stove, so I'll sell on the rest for the market price of €25/quintali.

Edit: Sorry, a quintali is 100 kilos

I´d have to agree with this...for one days work my OH charges 120€, that will provide over a years worth of wood (of course, just how much depends on type of wood and trickiness of the work involved). If you don´t want to cut it up yourself then you can get a cheaper labourer to do that for you.

[Millymollymandy]

Sorry I don't understand wood in weight, we only do it in m3 here in France!

There's no such thing as cheap labour in France with the high social costs.

Nor cheap wood either - have just paid €175 a corde (3 stere or 3 x 1m3 approx) of chestnut which is a bit scary. Unfortunately there's the French price and the foreigner's price here for wood, and we also live in one of the most expensive parts of France for firewood!

I don't know how much a tree chopper (I don't think surgeon is the right word for your average french bloke with chainsaw, no ropes and no protective gear ) would charge for a day's work and how much they could fell, split and chop in one day but it might be worth finding out. Even if we broke even at least I'd get some of the huge sycamores out which are totally blocking the light now they've grown so much!

Clara if your OH could cut me a year's worth of wood (I need about 5-6 cordes) in one day for €120 I would personally pay his travel expenses and put him up in a 5 star hotel for 2 nights, cos it would still be cheaper!

[contadino]

Sorry I don't understand wood in weight, we only do it in m3 here in France!

Well my wood store is about 5m3 and holds 400 kilos if it's all olive, 380 kilos if mixed with oak, cherry, or almond.

There's no such thing as cheap labour in France with the high social costs.

Depends on your definitions of 'cheap' and 'high' doesn't it. A perfectly cost-effective options would be to sort your felled wood yourself. That's cheap.

I don't think surgeon is the right word for your average french bloke with chainsaw, no ropes and no protective gear

Here they're called maestri di potature, or Master of Pruning. It's one of the most respected professions. They don't use ropes or protective gear because it would slow them down and increase the cost to you. Not 'average' by any means.

[Clara]

Well in Spain they don´t have a word for tree surgeon....and it shows, they just butcher stuff.

Pruning is different from what I would call tree surgery, I know that olives et al grow big, but a tree surgeon like my OH will go up something REALLY BIG......in places where they still have ancient growth forests, tree surgeons sometimes spend days up in the canopy, without touching terra firma.....definitely the time for safety equipment

[Millymollymandy]

Sorry I don't understand wood in weight, we only do it in m3 here in France!

Well my wood store is about 5m3 and holds 400 kilos if it's all olive, 380 kilos if mixed with oak, cherry, or almond.

There's no such thing as cheap labour in France with the high social costs.

Depends on your definitions of 'cheap' and 'high' doesn't it. A perfectly cost-effective options would be to sort your felled wood yourself. That's cheap.

I don't think surgeon is the right word for your average french bloke with chainsaw, no ropes and no protective gear

Here they're called maestri di potature, or Master of Pruning. It's one of the most respected professions. They don't use ropes or protective gear because it would slow them down and increase the cost to you. Not 'average' by any means.

Ha ha 5m3 is less than 2 cordes and we get through a corde per month!

Sorting out a giant felled tree is not cheap for us! One we don't have the equipment and two we don't have the time! On top of which we'd have paid someone about 3 times the amount that Clara's husband charges!!!

Perhaps you are young, fit and healthy and have all the fancy equipment for splitting and cutting enormous logs. We aren't (I've been just about crippled from one thing or another for the last 10 months and can't even stack wood or mow the lawn any more).

Tree cutters here are mostly farmers who spend the month of February chopping down oak and chestnut trees and selling it on as firewood.

Then there are gardeners who do all gardening jobs including tree cutting, without any protective gear.

Then there are the roofers who when they don't have any roofing jobs to do, going round canvassing from door to door to see who wants tree chopping or pruning jobs done. I just laugh at them and say, "What, in summer? You really know your subject don't you, ha ha ha". That pisses them off!

[oldfella]

I buy my wood from my neighbour and pay 174 euros for 4 metre cube for a mix of oak, chestnut, and acacia, but have just planted 75 oaks for the grand kids and will plant another 50 next year.

This 400yr old oak in my front garden will I hope provide the off spring for the heating for my offspring in future years;

To echo some comments of MillyMollyMandy, I needed to have the tree sorted out and phoned a Tree Surgeon an English guy who looked at the job gave me a price, and turned up two days later with a 12ft ladder a hand saw and dressed in shorts and tee shirt. I looked at the tree 35 meters high and suggested he should remove his head from his arse where it no dought it end up when he fell.

[Millymollymandy]

You aren't going to chop down that beautiful tree for firewood are you (or even your children)???

The 'tree surgeon' made me giggle.