A friend of mine in the States sent me these two links today. Absolutely disgusting!
Kindergartener Voted Out By Students
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/05/ ... 0288.shtml
5 year old handcuffed in school (last month)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4475513.stm
Lynne
American schools, but even so
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the.fee.fairy
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hmmmm
The first one, who says it was 'voting'?
Maybe it was the teacher asking who had been upset by the lad...
Its very very difficult to say when things get into the media.
The second one: Quite frankly, i don't blame them. 5 year-old or not, the child was being violent.
At least by being handcuffed and restrained by people trained to restrain she couldn't harm herself or others. Maybe she's learnt that tantrums aren't the way to go...
It is difficult to have any chance of working out the real stories behind what's reported. Both articles were written in a very sensationalist manner!!
The first one, who says it was 'voting'?
Maybe it was the teacher asking who had been upset by the lad...
Its very very difficult to say when things get into the media.
The second one: Quite frankly, i don't blame them. 5 year-old or not, the child was being violent.
At least by being handcuffed and restrained by people trained to restrain she couldn't harm herself or others. Maybe she's learnt that tantrums aren't the way to go...
It is difficult to have any chance of working out the real stories behind what's reported. Both articles were written in a very sensationalist manner!!
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You have a good couple of points there, Fee. However, if it was ever proved that the teacher in the first instance or the staff and police officers in the second instance were merely brain-restricted, woolly-minded idiots with nothing better to do in life than practice ideas which have been promulgated by other people with no more idea of how to treat children than a snail has of chumming up to a thrush, then I think I'd demand the death penalty.
But that, of course, won't happen because these people (I hesitate to use the term) were merely obeying instructions, no doubt.
But that's all hypothetical.
But that, of course, won't happen because these people (I hesitate to use the term) were merely obeying instructions, no doubt.
But that's all hypothetical.
Completely agree with you about the tone of the articles. However, if you watch the videos they're very interesting. In the first one, the child apparently has Asperger's. If that's the case, then had the mother made anything up he would have corrected her. Asperger's sufferers are incapable of lying. Furthermore, even if the teacher did ask who'd been upset by the kid, that's still unprofessional and, at the very least, a disciplinary matter since it has a detrimental effect on the child's self-esteem.the.fee.fairy wrote:hmmmm
The first one, who says it was 'voting'?
Maybe it was the teacher asking who had been upset by the lad...
Its very very difficult to say when things get into the media.
The second one: Quite frankly, i don't blame them. 5 year-old or not, the child was being violent.
At least by being handcuffed and restrained by people trained to restrain she couldn't harm herself or others. Maybe she's learnt that tantrums aren't the way to go...
It is difficult to have any chance of working out the real stories behind what's reported. Both articles were written in a very sensationalist manner!!
The second video, whilst it's been cut about, is also very interesting. For instance, the teacher takes the child down from the table by picking her up by the waist and getting her down. Not only is that not correct handling, it's also uncomfortable. The child may not have felt safe and therefore lashed out. Speaking as the mother of a kid who does exactly the same (severe EBD and dyslexia which only affects spelling and handwriting - he's 9 with a reading age of 17+), he only lashes out when he's been physically handled badly, like being held by the wrist. And being restrained in any way doesn't really help them. If you were to give a "normal" kid a tenner to behave themselves all day, they'd probably do it. An EBD kid just couldn't. No way.
So anyway, when this kid lashed out, the teacher told her not to touch her. So one rule for the teacher and one for the kid (I can touch you but you can't touch me). When the police came in and handcuffed her, she was sitting on a chair, seemingly completely relaxed and quiet. Of course, she became hysterical when they handcuffed her. What 5 year old wouldn't? Still, that one's easy to prove since the school has the whole thing on video.
If it turns out the complaints are justified, these are two teacher who really should be put on some kind of register of child abusers and never allowed within 100 feet of any building where people work with children ever again!
Lynne.
My ASD son had a similar thing happen to him at school.. The children were asked Who would they NOT like to sit next to. They voted for him and the teacher, a head at that, acted on this and he sat alone until I pulled him from the school.
My son had a 'melt down' last night over something silly that he COULDN'T COPE WITH. He also insulted his leisure coach. But it was not his fault, he can't help it and his coach knew that. He also endangered himself and the others by suddenly ruining out of the hall. Something else had no control over.
SO What next? Blame the parents? Most who are ignorant of the subject do!
Fee you really need to do some proper reach on children on the autistic spectrum scale before acting as judge jury and executioner as what you have said is reminiscent of the Victorians and their throw them in the institutions mentality. You have really insulted me and my son, and probably others with a child on the scale.The second one: Quite frankly, i don't blame them. 5 year-old or not, the child was being violent.
At least by being handcuffed and restrained by people trained to restrain she couldn't harm herself or others. Maybe she's learnt that tantrums aren't the way to go...
My son had a 'melt down' last night over something silly that he COULDN'T COPE WITH. He also insulted his leisure coach. But it was not his fault, he can't help it and his coach knew that. He also endangered himself and the others by suddenly ruining out of the hall. Something else had no control over.
SO What next? Blame the parents? Most who are ignorant of the subject do!
Quite Baldowrie. We went through the statementing process for ds2 in Waltham Forest. I say "statementing process". It was a joke. The school decided he had ADHD because on the day he started school, they couldn't get him to sit down. So he was referred to the educational psychologist because whatever the "Every Child Matters" initiative says, they all have to conform. So it's not a case of "this kid's different, how do we work with them?" but "this kids broken, how do we fix them?"
Anyway, the ADHD assessment came back with a score so low it was a joke, but a conduct disorder score so high it was off the scale! So then they went for Autistic Spectrum Disorder. This had us meeting with two psychiatrists who saw us all together once. The second appointment was for dh, ds1 and me with one psych and ds2 all on his own with the other (something which they're not actually allowed to do - he wasn't even allowed a trusted adult), then a final summing up meeting with just dh and me. At the final meeting, they said that they felt his problems at school were caused by the fact that he had discipline at home and at the nursery he had been attending and that the lack of discipline when he started school meant that he just thought "Wahoo! This is where I can kick my shoes off and put my feet on the table!" Sadly, one chance throwaway remark in that last meeting became the focus of their entire assessment.
The letter we got back made a big deal of the fact that he behaved differently with them on their own than he did with us in the room (hello? What kid doesn't? You need to be a psychiatrist to work that out?), and that I had agreed that the way I discipline him winds him up. The letter was full of factual inaccuracies (like saying that he had been given a vaccination against my wishes, which was not the case at all - and that was the least of the errors), and the conclusion was that his problems were entirely due to the way I discipline him. No mention was made at all of their conclusions about school. So in other words, blame the parents.
So now we're in Lincolnshire where they took one look at the assessments that were done in London and suggested two things. Firstly, let's do the whole thing again from start to finish because it's not been done properly (or at all) and secondly, they recommended that I look into suing the Forest Healthcare Trust and his former school, since it turns out that he has dyslexia, affecting his spelling and handwriting (so his meltdowns during school spelling tests and when asked to do written work which resulted in him being kept in at playtimes to finish, which he still couldn't do, are now explained), has a projected IQ of around 160 and is a kynesthetic learner, meaning that he needs to walk around, have music on and other things that we might consider distractions in order to learn! They're also looking at autistic traits as he has emotional developmental delay.
So yes, blame the parents because it's easy and it costs less than actually doing something about it. And we're in the interesting position now where there are lots of support groups and organisations for dyslexia and autism, but there's pretty much nothing for the parents of kids with emotional and behavioural difficulties (EBD). There is an organisation for EBD teachers, but what help is that to those of us who have beautiful, loving, caring kids who just aren't average? Maybe we should set one up.
Lynne
Anyway, the ADHD assessment came back with a score so low it was a joke, but a conduct disorder score so high it was off the scale! So then they went for Autistic Spectrum Disorder. This had us meeting with two psychiatrists who saw us all together once. The second appointment was for dh, ds1 and me with one psych and ds2 all on his own with the other (something which they're not actually allowed to do - he wasn't even allowed a trusted adult), then a final summing up meeting with just dh and me. At the final meeting, they said that they felt his problems at school were caused by the fact that he had discipline at home and at the nursery he had been attending and that the lack of discipline when he started school meant that he just thought "Wahoo! This is where I can kick my shoes off and put my feet on the table!" Sadly, one chance throwaway remark in that last meeting became the focus of their entire assessment.
The letter we got back made a big deal of the fact that he behaved differently with them on their own than he did with us in the room (hello? What kid doesn't? You need to be a psychiatrist to work that out?), and that I had agreed that the way I discipline him winds him up. The letter was full of factual inaccuracies (like saying that he had been given a vaccination against my wishes, which was not the case at all - and that was the least of the errors), and the conclusion was that his problems were entirely due to the way I discipline him. No mention was made at all of their conclusions about school. So in other words, blame the parents.
So now we're in Lincolnshire where they took one look at the assessments that were done in London and suggested two things. Firstly, let's do the whole thing again from start to finish because it's not been done properly (or at all) and secondly, they recommended that I look into suing the Forest Healthcare Trust and his former school, since it turns out that he has dyslexia, affecting his spelling and handwriting (so his meltdowns during school spelling tests and when asked to do written work which resulted in him being kept in at playtimes to finish, which he still couldn't do, are now explained), has a projected IQ of around 160 and is a kynesthetic learner, meaning that he needs to walk around, have music on and other things that we might consider distractions in order to learn! They're also looking at autistic traits as he has emotional developmental delay.
So yes, blame the parents because it's easy and it costs less than actually doing something about it. And we're in the interesting position now where there are lots of support groups and organisations for dyslexia and autism, but there's pretty much nothing for the parents of kids with emotional and behavioural difficulties (EBD). There is an organisation for EBD teachers, but what help is that to those of us who have beautiful, loving, caring kids who just aren't average? Maybe we should set one up.
Lynne
Last edited by lsm1066 on Thu May 29, 2008 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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eek
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American Schools
I absolutely feel for anyone who has a child with disabilities. My niece is severely disabled and life is a constant struggle for her.
That being said....
Not all teachers are trained in dealing with special needs children. When you put a special needs child in a "regular" class with a "regular" teacher something is more like to happen than not. Most special needs kids are placed in regular classes at a parents request and "No child left behind" laws pretty much permit anything, regardless of whether or not the teacher is trained and how large the classes are (which run around 30 kids per teacher).
I absolutely do not condone any child abuse. I work in a school and see what goes on and how tied our hands are by regulations and burocrats who have no idea what goes on in a classroom on a regular basis. There is no easy answer.
That being said....
Not all teachers are trained in dealing with special needs children. When you put a special needs child in a "regular" class with a "regular" teacher something is more like to happen than not. Most special needs kids are placed in regular classes at a parents request and "No child left behind" laws pretty much permit anything, regardless of whether or not the teacher is trained and how large the classes are (which run around 30 kids per teacher).
I absolutely do not condone any child abuse. I work in a school and see what goes on and how tied our hands are by regulations and burocrats who have no idea what goes on in a classroom on a regular basis. There is no easy answer.
This is not so for the UK, we have to fight tooth and nail to keep them out of main stream education and often loose. In the UK Special Needs schools are being shut as the Government believe that the children will fair well in main stream but they fail to realise that one size does not fit all.Most special needs kids are placed in regular classes at a parents request
Schools here are also driven by league tables and the Special Needs Child brings those down...you work out the rest
Home Ed for Special Need Children has going up by double I was reading somewhere, certainly the email list I am on I saw in one week just after Easter around 100 newly home ed children were mentioned, and more asking about it. 90% were on the autistic scale somewhere.
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red
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yeh -baldowrie is right, in the UK - the schools for 'moderate' special needs have been closed down.. inclusion is the only way for kids that do not have 'severe' special needs. The teachers are supposed to be trained, and children with a statement usually get some support from a teaching assistant. And teh variety with both teachers and assistants is vast and makes all the difference. We had one teacher - older - who really felt my son should not be there and that the one to one assistant was there to take him away... not a good experience. the following year we had a different teacher.. who actually asked for my son to be in her class as she had a positive attitude to SEN. WE had one really great assistant.. when she left and we got someone else, I found out just how great the first had been...
We were lucky with the school kids.. they were really positive towards my son, though it has to be said he had no behavioural problems other than anxiety, so there was no violence etc to deal with. Other kids would look out for him, tie his shoe laces etc. unfortunately parents were not so great... I guess in that generation kids had not been included.. I even had one parent accuse my son of taking up all of the classroom assistants time. I had to point out there was no classroom assistant, and that lady was my son's personal assistant and if he was not in the class, she would not be there either!
we home ed now, and it was the best decision I made for my son's education, and I wish I made it earlier. He has come on in leaps and bounds. He is on the spectrum too, and now he does not have the strain of 'coping' with interaction with others, he is free to get on with some actual learning.
We were lucky with the school kids.. they were really positive towards my son, though it has to be said he had no behavioural problems other than anxiety, so there was no violence etc to deal with. Other kids would look out for him, tie his shoe laces etc. unfortunately parents were not so great... I guess in that generation kids had not been included.. I even had one parent accuse my son of taking up all of the classroom assistants time. I had to point out there was no classroom assistant, and that lady was my son's personal assistant and if he was not in the class, she would not be there either!
we home ed now, and it was the best decision I made for my son's education, and I wish I made it earlier. He has come on in leaps and bounds. He is on the spectrum too, and now he does not have the strain of 'coping' with interaction with others, he is free to get on with some actual learning.
Red
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I like like minded people... a bit like minded anyway.. well people with bits of their minds that are like the bits of my mind that I like...
my website: colour it green
etsy shop
blog