Free range Chickens

[Cherry_blossom]

Hiya all,

I know we are all aware of the plight of our caged chickens in this country,
Hugh Fernley-Whittingstall along with Jamie Oliver have done so much to bring this issue to the attention of the masses.

Now I felt the need to voice my anger and I hope this is the place...I visited my local Co-op today to buy a Chicken for dinner! I always (without fail) buy free range of course! and could I find a free range one?

Not on your life...! How appalling is that, plenty of cheep standard chickens though!
I don't usually buy from the Co-op, I usually use Sainsbury's or Waitrose, buy co-op is closer...

Does anyone else have this issue, is this a co-op problem?

I asked to talk to the manager, but as it is a Bank holiday, there was no manager to be found!

So we didn't get chicken for dinner, and had lovely free range beef from our local butchers instead, that we had left in the freezer.

Take care all
Love n Hugs

Xe
xXx

[lsm1066]

Same in our Co-op sadly.

However, that reminds me of something else. We all know about the plight of battery hens and there are organisations set up to rescue them. Sadly I'm not sure if the same can be said for free range egg producing hens. My neighbour has a friend who supplies T***o with all their free range eggs (I presume he means locally but he might not). Anyway, T***o have a policy of not accepting eggs from any hen that's been laying for more than a year. Something to do with the quality of the shells. Consequently, he has to "dispose of" his free range layers every year.

I guess this happens all over the country. So whilst I fully understand that battery hens have to be rescued from their plight, spare a thought from the free range layers in the same position. And if anyone knows of a rescue organisation for these girls, please let me know.

Lynne

[MKG]

The suspect shell thing may be, of course (and probably is), bullshit on the part of the supermarket chain in question. Not that I'm accusing anyone of commercial cynicism, but it's the kind of fairy tale which would tend to make suppliers more dependant upon buyers and therefore much, much more amenable to any other supermarket-friendly suggestions.

Domestic fowl, as a species, have survived for a long time without the T****s of this world dictating exactly how that species should be run. Chicken Run wasn't TOTALLY a comedy.

[Shirley]

Our co-op sells the Elmwood chickens which have an 'enhanced' living conditions apparently.

The Co-operative has carefully selected a small group of dedicated British farmers to embrace the retailer's own higher-welfare Elmwood standard for fresh whole chickens, which means the birds are nurtured for longer in more enriched environments. This will be extended to all the Co-op's fresh chicken from early next year.

Meat Info

Ch4 chicken info

[Cherry_blossom]

OMG! I was not aware of the sad plight of Free Range Hens! blimey...what is going on i suppose at least they are happier for their short lives!

I was umming and Ahhing about getting my own Hens and having my own Eggs...but now I am so determined!
I need to get permission from my landlord as i'm in a council flat, and then get housing ready for them, but hopefully this time next year i'll be almost there!

Our co-op sells the Elmwood chickens which have an 'enhanced' living conditions apparently

Chickens can be reared in one of three systems - indoors, free-range or organic. Good welfare can only be achieved in all three systems if the chickens are provided with the right conditions to cater for their welfare.
The RSPCA welfare standards (labelled Freedom Food) for meat chickens insist the birds are:


Given more space to allow them to flap their wings and walk around

Given brighter lighting during the day and a longer dark period at night to allow them a proper rest period

Given a more interesting living space including perches, straw bales and pecking objects to encourage activity and the expression of natural behaviour

Selected from genetically slower growing breeds to help overcome the serious welfare problems associated with faster growth rates.

I think the elmwood farm chickens are indoor chickens, I am unsure if they are living in cages.

[Cherry_blossom]

For anyone Interested this link is from a Jamie Oliver programme a few weeks ago,

and lists the supermarkets and what they are doing regards Chicken welfare...

http://www.jamieoliver.com/jamiesfowldi ... rkets.html

Take care all
Xe
xXx

[Martin]

Like lots of things, it's not as simple as it looks...........
When you start off with point-of-lay pullets, as soon as they are in production they'll produce a small egg, at a rate of damned near 100% lay (one egg per day per chook) - then as time goes by, the size of the eggs increases, and the percentage over the flock drops............so by the end of their first season, the flock may only be producing 60% (from 100 birds, 60 eggs per day).....
So, you are now faced with a load of birds that are eating you out of house and home, and they need a "rest" - they need a good moult, during which time they'll go completely "off lay"........and they are still eating you out of house and home.........several weeks later they will refeather, and restart laying..........at probably roughly where they left off - 60%.........
SO, the reason the birds are usually only kept for a single season is simple economics - an egg farmer makes his money from the margin between his costs, and what he obtains for eggs - certainly when I kept free-range hens commercially, the sums just did not add up to try running them for more than a single season.........feed costs are horrendous, and it just doesn't pay to keep a load of unproductive hens until they condescend to restart laying at a far lower rate - it's much cheaper to sell them off and start afresh with pullets

[Thurston Garden]

SO, the reason the birds are usually only kept for a single season is simple economics - an egg farmer makes his money from the margin between his costs, and what he obtains for eggs - certainly when I kept free-range hens commercially, the sums just did not add up to try running them for more than a single season.........feed costs are horrendous, and it just doesn't pay to keep a load of unproductive hens until they condescend to restart laying at a far lower rate - it's much cheaper to sell them off and start afresh with pullets

So vaccine manufacturers for the likes for sam 'n' ella and campylobacter don't bother with the expense of manufacturing vaccines which last longer than 70 odd weeks, which discourages any poultry farmer from keeping them for longer if they wanted.

Vicious circle!

[Martin]

I'll stick my neck out, and say that if free-range hens are kept properly they shouldn't NEED any vaccinations to stay healthy
I couldn't find a way to make it pay to keep them longer - I'm sure that loads of breeding COULD achieve wonders, but it would take awhile, and a great deal of altruism I've yet to see in chook breeders........
It's all down to getting the greatest number of eggs of a good size over the longest period for the least input............SO, when I was doing it, you bought pullets from one of the big companies who produced laying hybrids like ISAs and Hisex - they were good hardy birds that performed really well in free-range - each season, the rep would come round and boast usually of "1 or 2 extra eggs per lay - average 320 per bird", and "at a feed consumption of 2 grammes lower per day" - each season they'd managed to squeeze a tiny bit more "performance". If their expertise was directed instead at improving them in the direction of short moulting times, improved lay in 2nd and subsequent seasons etc., I'm sure it could be done............BUT pullet breeders make their money by flogging you new pullets every season..........(bally economics again!)

[Martin]

here you go - here's the "spec sheet" on hisex layers - we had a few flocks of them, they were good birds!
http://www.hendrix-poultry.nl/template.php?sectionId=25

[MKG]

Excuse my ignorance - I've never kept chooks - but how in Hell did it ever work in the past? I know that chickens have been a mainstay for centuries, but you all seem to be saying it's not really economically worthwhile. Someone point me in the right direction, please.

[Thurston Garden]

I'll stick my neck out, and say that if free-range hens are kept properly they shouldn't NEED any vaccinations to stay healthy

I would sure agree, but if you want the stamp them with the Lion Mark and have a dreaded supermarket contract, then you need to vaccinate. Remember, "Where there's blame, there's a claim!"

each season, the rep would come round and boast usually of "1 or 2 extra eggs per lay

Is this when I admit to being the ISA Rep's Best Man a few years back

[Thurston Garden]

Excuse my ignorance - I've never kept chooks - but how in Hell did it ever work in the past? I know that chickens have been a mainstay for centuries, but you all seem to be saying it's not really economically worthwhile. Someone point me in the right direction, please.

Not sure when Martin was keeping his birds, but I would think (as a relative youngster on here ) that pre-supermarket and mass advertising by them, poultry keepers would get a more favourable price for their eggs. Supermarket buyers will have the packing stations screwed right down on costs and then the packing station will have to pass the screw down onto the producer: Martin.

Assume you are making only a penny on an egg, then you need to sell a shed load of eggs in a year. To have a shed load of hens you need a very large shed, or more likely sheds on lots of land with all the other infrastructure, staff, feed, ever increasing administration.....

Is it any wonder people cannot make a living at it? Damn supermarkets!

[Martin]

for MKG - what makes it economical or not is the "opposition"- if everyone were flogging free-range organic eggs at £5 a dozen, there'd be no problem
If you're doing it commercially you have to sell your eggs into the existing market, so if your eggs are substantially more expensive than the opposition's, you're stuffed!
for TG - when I was doing it (late 80's) we weren't allowed to stamp eggs, and there was no obligation to vaccinate

[Martin]

when we did it we did so on a relatively small scale - we could never have made a living by selling to packing stations (bloody crooks!), so we did the whole thing - produced, graded, packed, and delivered to retailers, and sold at the farm gate........that way we could just get by on about a third of the birds we'd have needed to sell to a packer.
I really loathed the packers - they'd often drive small producers to the wall by waiting until eggs were in glut, and giving a few pence a tray for them - they'd then store them in the old apple cool stores, sometimes for months, then when the prices went back up, they'd flog them! In those days you were not allowed to put the laid date on the eggs or the packaging, all you were allowed to put on the boxes was "packing date" (owing to pressure from the big packers)