the townies guide to buying some land......

[kiwirach]

apologies if this thread is in the wrong section....i wasnt sure where i should put it!!.

i made the startling discovery last night that i may actually be able to afford to buy some land after all. i had only thought about buying land and a house, but i've seen a website with plots of land that is surely affordable for me.

i'm asking here cos you lot at so knowledgeable, and cos i've just been called into work so cant spend the day trawling the net to find the answers....if i knew where to look......

what would i need to look into when looking to buy this land, with regards to eventually turning it into a place to live on, and off so to speak!.

are there websites with good info or books that i should maybe buy?.

i'd want to buy the land, grow veges, fruit for the time being...maybe rent some of it out...i wouldnt need much to begin with. then as financial resources allowed, add a shed, and eventually a home. i'd look to want to live there in 7-10yrs time. it is possible that i could afford 2 parcels of land...one of which i'd keep solely as an investment to sell on when the time came to move onto the other patch.

have i got my townie rose colured specks well and truely glued to my face, or is this actually possible?.

you thoughts would be truly appreciated

[ina]

Planning permission is the first thing you have to consider if you eventually want to live on the land! And that's what makes land expensive... I there is none at the moment, that doesn't mean that there never will be. But it might be a difficult process getting it, and very costly. (Sorry, can't give you any tips on how to go about it - I'm sure somebody else can.)

[mybarnconversion]

In terms of ever being able to build on your land, you're unlikely to get permission to build (under current regulations) unless the land is with a village or town boundary - development of green-field sites is practically impossible. Such sites are already likely to have permission on them and so will be sold as building plot at many times the cost of green-field plots. The actual process of applying for planning is not overly expensive.

Pembrokeshire council is one of the few that has a Low Impact Policy - that means they may allow people to live on and develop green field sites ... however the practicality and usability of this policy is yet to be seen...

However, if you don't plan to live on the land then buy it, use it and enjoy!

[Thurston Garden]

You can check if areas of land have been zoned for a particular type of development by looking at a Council's planning web site - look for the "Local Plan". If an area is zoned for industrial, then there's little hope of building housing there...

Similarly if it's a conservation area, then it's going to be an uphill struggle. What the planners term 'sporadic development in the countryside' i.e a lone house without an agricultural tie is frowned upon and almost impossible to get consent for. Council's don't like ribbon development i.e. houses strung along rural roads, but are quite favourable of infill development - joining up groups of housing.

As ina says, if there's no consent on a plot for sale, then you can safely assume it's not going to be a straightforward application. Outline consent in Scotland costs £220 for an application. It's a no brainer that a £220 outlay could treble or more the value of a plot. But people buy plots with no consent and battle away for years - my mum's cousin got consent for sporadic development in the countryside after seven years!

NB the above is from my experience in Scotland.

[kiwirach]

thanks for the replies so far.....i didnt want to listen to the part of me telling me it could be to good to be true.

i shall investigate and ponder and may still go for some land even if i cant ever live on it.

[Stonehead]

In terms of ever being able to build on your land, you're unlikely to get permission to build (under current regulations) unless the land is with a village or town boundary - development of green-field sites is practically impossible.

Unless you're a developer. We have several housing estates going in around the village, all built on farmland that was bought by the developers in the past four years. I've also seen a map that shows even more farmland is earmarked for more houses. (And that's in addition to the infill!)

[ina]

You'd also have to look at the permitted use of the land. You can't just go create a garden on farmland... So, if you just want a meadow and keep a couple of sheep on it, that should be easy enough; even if you need to build a little shelter for them. But as soon as you start digging up a corner for a kind of allotment, somebody might start asking questions!

[Stonehead]

You'd also have to look at the permitted use of the land. You can't just go create a garden on farmland... So, if you just want a meadow and keep a couple of sheep on it, that should be easy enough; even if you need to build a little shelter for them. But as soon as you start digging up a corner for a kind of allotment, somebody might start asking questions!

But you can, of course, put a quarter, a sixth or an eighth down to vegetables as part of a four, six or eight year rotation. Just make sure you do follow the rotation each and every year.

[Ellendra]

Another option for living on the land might be to look into something like a yurt or a camper. Many people live quite comfortably in yurts year-round.

Building permission is something I'm facing right now. According to the building codes in my area, living in a "temporary" shelter is legal as long as its in a different place every 3 months. That seems tedious, but it will do fine for me while I work on getting permission to build.

[Thomzo]

I was speaking to someone who was trying to ger permission for a home on a greenfield site outside a village. She keeps horses and has been advised (by a local councillor) to start off with a small wooden stable for the horses. Then, if she starts breeding, she will probably get planning permission for a caravan so that she can stay there while the mares are in foal. After a few years, she should try for permission for a small bedsit over the stables. Once that's established she can then try for extensions etc.

She's only just started on this journey so I don't know if it will work but that's what she was advised to do be her local council.

Zoe

[Thurston Garden]

Zoe this is the type of thing I meant in my earlier posts where I mentioned an agricultural tie. If it can be demonstrated that there is a definite need for someone to live on site at an agricultural or equestrian concern then the planners may grant consent but.... I have seen here where they employ an independent consultant who specialises in deciding the need for a live on position and they consider the case in detail. In cases where there is a need, nine times out of then the Council will grant consent subject to the applicant being party to (in Scotland) a Section 75 Agreement. This Agreement binds the applicant and their successors to sell the house and business, be it agricultural or equestrian, together and as a going concern. This prevents people keeping horses etc as a means to gaining planning consent and then getting rid once the consent has been granted. I know of 2 cases like this within 3 miles of where we live.

Council's being Council's, they make the applicant pay all the legal fees, both the Council's in-house solicitors and the applicant's own and business case consultant's fees too. And if there's a new school needed locally, or as is the case in the Scottish Borders where the reinstatement of the railway link to Edinburgh is proposed, a financial contribution (called Planning Gain) to the construction of the school/railway. My dad got consent to convert an old garage/workshop into a one bed house on a brownfield infill site in his village and had to cough up £5k to wards the railway line project..... I am all Doom and Gloom on a Sunday morning huh

[kiwirach]

zoe, your post was quite encouraging, then i go read TG's!!.

the more i look at it the more i feel its just another way to wringing money from people....if i'm paying taxes to cover things like building schools...why do i then need to 'contribute' to the build as well?

i do understand the need to have restraint in what people are allowed to do, but a few acres for someone to live on isnt much in the grand scheme of things surely?

i did come across some info that said that if the land didnt currently have planning permission it didnt mean it would never have it, which i felt was encouraging and goes along with your post zoe.

i still feel that if i can afford to buy some land i will as i think it would be a good investment....i may just have give up the plans of it ever actually being useful to me in the way i really want it to be.

[Thomzo]

Hi Thurston
Doom and gloom on a sunny Sunday? It's lovely out there.

I quite suspect that if this person gets her flat above the stables there will be a tie but, IMHO, I don't think that's any bad thing. Why should people be able to build houses anywhere? There are so many empty properties in this country that there really is no need to build any more.

Anyway, as far as Kiwirach is concerned, it is possible to buy land within an area of permitted development and build on it even if there is no current planning permission. Especially if you are not to worried about where in the country you are going to end up.

People do it all the time. You only have to look at the self build magazines to see it is possible. It migh take a few years but it sounds as if you are prepared for that. Just do lots of research and be prepared to pay for advice.

Good luck

Zoe

[Thurston Garden]

zoe, your post was quite encouraging, then i go read TG's!!.

Sorry

Don't let my post put you off - it is not impossible to get consent, but planners make it as difficult as they can to prevent all and sundry doing it - so you are right that one person having a few acres to life on/off is not much in the grand scheme, but if loads of people did it, there would be no countryside left, hence the hurdles.

Whilst hoping I don't start a stampede, and subsequently pricing my self out my long term plan, there are areas of Scotland (particularly those depopulated by the dreaded Clearances) where council's positively encourage re population and will support sympathetic development. The more remote you go, the cheaper the land.

Please don't all rush at once.....

[Thurston Garden]

Hi Thurston
Doom and gloom on a sunny Sunday? It's lovely out there. Zoe

It is here too but my post was all doom and gloom after yours

Anyway, as far as Kiwirach is concerned, it is possible to buy land within an area of permitted development and build on it even if there is no current planning permission. Especially if you are not to worried about where in the country you are going to end up.

This is quite true but you would have many years of wrangling with the councils planners and solicitors. Development without consent is not something they stand and watch. Many people have of course done this, some get consent but some do not. One case that comes to mind is the chap in the roundhouse who has been battling for years - I can't find the link but will edit later and add 'cos his determination is inspiring. I am not sure I could live with the constant threat of losing everything I have built/worked for - I live this way for a slower, calmer more satisfying life.

Just do lots of research and be prepared to pay for advice. Good luck

Probably the most important comment in this thread!



Edited: There ye go That Roundhouse