Our Children May Have No Choice About Being Self Sufficient

[TheGoodEarth]

I believe that when my daughter (now 8) is my age (40) she will be living in a very much poorer UK. I think there will be high unemployment, high taxes, over population, poor housing, no state pension, poor welfare system and very poor living standards. My reasons are as follows.

1. The UK will become the most populated country in Europe by 2060. Given the size of our small island this will be catastrophic. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7583776.stm

2. North Sea oil will soon run out and we will have to rely on Russia and the Middle East for our energy requirements. A gas pipeline is currently being built to deliver 25% of the EU’s gas from Russia. The words short, curlies, switch, turn and off spring to mind!

3. The UK manufacturing capability has all but disappeared never to return. We just can’t compete on prices with the East and this will not improve as our land becomes more expensive due to mass migration. We are a small island and only have limited land.

4. Our manufacturing business was supposed to be replaced by a “service based” economy. However we are now sending a lot of our call centres and IT work to Eastern Europe and India!

5. We are now told that the UK is heading towards being a “knowledge based” economy! In other words “an intangible asset”, the value of which is based on opinion. How worrying is that? In the next big recession tens of thousands of contracts will be cancelled by foreign companies no longer needing our ‘knowledge’ leading to millions being made unemployed.

6. Think about this. The West generally borrows, spends and consumes. The East invests, produces and saves. Who will end up in a better state there I wonder?

7. China has 1 in 5 of the world’s population and will very soon be the most important country in the world for doing business with. Are our children being offered Mandarin as a language at school? Are we being taught about Chinese business customs? We will in a generation become a bit part player in world business.

I could go on but it is starting to depress me Am I being unnecessarily paranoid? Or am I right to be concerned? Will we end up becoming crofters once again due to economic necessity?

[Annpan]

I am continually baffled by this state of mind....

Now, do you think that there has ever been a parent anywhere who didn't worry about the state of the world and what their children will inherit?

Most of us remember the cold war, the fuel shortages of the 70's and 80's. Not long before that we had the second world war and the first use of atomic bombs and rationing in many countries, and a generation previous we had the first world war and the first use of mechanised warfare on a huge scale, reducing the male population by millions... many thought the west would never be able to re-populate.

I was reading this morning about the highland clearances... how hundreds of thousands of crofters and country folk left Scotland with free passage to the 'new world' that was only 60 years before the first world war.


You may think I have gone off at a tangent here but seriously, think of the changes every generation has had to forgo in the west, and we keep going... Some people loose their livelyhoods, some their health, and some sadly their lives... but most of us carry on with our lives, pay our bills and put food on our table and care for our family in whatever way we can.

Think of the billions of people who survive with no electricity or gas in their homes, and most of those people are sadly not blessed with the education that we take for granted.

You say 'the schools' don't teach mandarin, well... learn together at home... or get your school to teach it, your child's education is YOUR responsibility and how do you expect schools to give your child what she needs without your input. Now it is all about computers but my generation learned 'information technology' and 'computer programming' on machines and in codes that were obsolete before we reached university age... and yet somehow we get by and many people make a living doing something they didn't learn at school.

And so what if huge droves of people go back to crofting and a closer community spirit, we will all be richer for it.

My point is... stop worrying. It will give you nothing but a headache and an early grave.
Do something worthwhile, don't worry about anything you can't fix and if you can fix it then fix it, and stop worrying.

Your daughter will most likely grow up to be happy and healthy, and look back and laugh at what people worried about when she was 8.

[TheGoodEarth]

.....puts tail between legs, bows head and does a mumbling retreat...

[Clara]

One of the main reasons I live as I live is to relearn the skills that are needed in order that I pass them onto my daughters....regardless of whether they HAVE to be self sufficient or not, their lives will be richer for knowing that another way is possible and that they don't have to be a wage slave.

[Milims]

I do worry about about the negative effect that those in the past have had on the planet and the effect that we are still having on it. I have made a conscious decision to try my best to have as low a negative effect as I can and have incorporated into my daily life the measures that I'm sure most of us on here have incorporated too - and I'm sure there are many of you out there better at it than me!
I feel also that it's very important that my children have a skills and knowledge bank to help them survive what ever life throws at them. I think it's important to know more than one way of doing things, like the difference between buying a ready made cleaning product and knowing how to make your own, or ready meals and a home cooked meal.
I don't think it's just about the eco stuff either, it's also about financial survival and flexibility of thinking.
That said I'm no saint and I certainly don't worry my self sick about it - but I do feel a certain amount of smugness at the thought that if it comes to the crunch, we might survive better than some!

[Rosendula]

Blimey, Annpan! You really know your mind on this one, and boy, did you write it well.

.....puts tail between legs, bows head and does a mumbling retreat...

You, too, TheGoodEarth. Please don't retreat . You have obviously put a lot of thought into our situation and it is completely natural to worry about our children and grandchildren's future. But you also told us that it depresses you, and you mustn't let that happen. One thing I have learned is that being depressed about the past, or the possible future means you are not enjoying the present as well as you could be. But one thing us Ishers are here for is to help each other - you told us what you worry about, and Annpan and told you why she doesn't worry. Gosh, she helped calm me down and I wasn't even worrying

[Odsox]

1. The UK will become the most populated country in Europe by 2060. Given the size of our small island this will be catastrophic.

Just to put a bit of perspective on this, I remember well when I was in primary school in the early fifties that it was forecast that by the distant year 2000 the population of the earth would be so high that we would each have one square foot of room to stand on.
I remember that we had to cluster together in the assembly hall to see what one square foot of room was like.
Wonder what happened to all those statisticians and I wonder how much they got paid to come up with that dire prediction ?

[Annpan]

Blimey, Annpan! You really know your mind on this one, and boy, did you write it well.

.....puts tail between legs, bows head and does a mumbling retreat...

You, too, TheGoodEarth. Please don't retreat . You have obviously put a lot of thought into our situation and it is completely natural to worry about our children and grandchildren's future. But you also told us that it depresses you, and you mustn't let that happen. One thing I have learned is that being depressed about the past, or the possible future means you are not enjoying the present as well as you could be. But one thing us Ishers are here for is to help each other - you told us what you worry about, and Annpan and told you why she doesn't worry. Gosh, she helped calm me down and I wasn't even worrying

Yup, took me a few years of depression to figure it out.

I totally agree, you need to enjoy the present.

TheGoodEarth, I hope you didn't take any of my comments too personally. I have heard the arguement/scare stories so many times, peak-oil seems to be the current biggy... but somehow the wondrous, adaptable human race will find a way. As Milims and Clara have said we can just do our best to prepare ourselves and our family for the future.

[TheGoodEarth]

Not at all Annpan! But you do know how to put a man with Monday morning blues in his place! I think that after the freedom of the weekend at home, then returning to work on a Monday with all the current heavy news stories I was just ready to let rip. I really felt that for us as a race, our destiny is no longer in our own hands.

I do still believe what I said 100% but I was probably in a frame of mind where I was ignoring the positives. Now after a large glass of wine and a bit of a post work chill, I think there is plenty to look forward to. Bring it on!

[Flo]

Funny but one of my children and partner worked in Hong Kong for a year or so between university and settling down, learned a little of the language to add to what Dad passed on (honest he was English but spoke Cantonese to get by with and read a little). They commented that China works on a parallel thought process rather like the other rail track to us without having the sleepers as contact between them and us. Another child is married to a German and is bilingual and these two could work in either country or anywhere that spoke a smattering of either language. Not skills learned at school but learned later in the school of needs must.

They'd already learned to cook, clean, iron and mend in the school of needs must at home because the household needed all hands to the deck with parents running a small business. They knew a bit about gardening, a bit about mending their bikes, a bit about mending cars, a bit about sailing small boats, a bit about fishing, a bit about dealing with customers, a bit about running a village hall, a bit about looking after dogs, a lot about the financial aspects of life, had paper rounds and Saturday jobs as soon as they were legally old enough.

There's not a lot you can teach your children but there's a lot they can learn at home if they aren't mollycoddled and waited upon. If your children leave home with a good knowledge of household skills and the ability to manage a budget, with some work experience even if its only helping at a car boot sale regularly and having made the most of their schooling then you've done as much as you can as a parent.

Meantime it's about time that we, the people on the street, took a much more active interest in what the government is doing to manage our country. Far too few of us call our local MPs to account, vote, speak up and make ourselves heard. If the place has gone downhill we have been guilty of letting it.

[Thomzo]

Wow - what an amazingly positive thread. Thank you, GoodEarth, for starting it. Even if you weren't feeling depressed, I'm sure there are plenty who are just at the moment. Thank you, Annpan and all the others for highlighting the positives. I quite agree that mankind has a way of bouncing back. We have had recessions before and always come out the other side, stronger and richer.

UK manufacturing has reduced but that was inevitable as we became richer we could afford to pay someone else to do the dirty jobs. The trouble is that they will become richer as a result. Eventually salaries around the world with equalise and it will be cheaper to manufacture at home again.

We are a densly populated land but many foreign workers who came here, attracted by good salaries, are now leaving. My prediction is that India will become the country of choice for migrant workers. They have the booming economy AND the good weather. Those who are prepared to travel for work will go where the economy is growing fastest and where the living is cheap (just as British bankers once headed for Hong Kong and now go to Singapore). Don't forget also the floods of Brits heading to Australia at the moment.

Life goes on and each set back makes us stronger.

Zoe

[Big Al]

I believe that when my daughter (now 8) is my age (40) she will be living in a very much poorer UK. I think there will be high unemployment, high taxes, over population, poor housing, no state pension, poor welfare system and very poor living standards. My reasons are as follows.

1. The UK will become the most populated country in Europe by 2060. Given the size of our small island this will be catastrophic. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7583776.stm

2. North Sea oil will soon run out and we will have to rely on Russia and the Middle East for our energy requirements. A gas pipeline is currently being built to deliver 25% of the EU’s gas from Russia. The words short, curlies, switch, turn and off spring to mind!

3. The UK manufacturing capability has all but disappeared never to return. We just can’t compete on prices with the East and this will not improve as our land becomes more expensive due to mass migration. We are a small island and only have limited land.

4. Our manufacturing business was supposed to be replaced by a “service based” economy. However we are now sending a lot of our call centres and IT work to Eastern Europe and India!

5. We are now told that the UK is heading towards being a “knowledge based” economy! In other words “an intangible asset”, the value of which is based on opinion. How worrying is that? In the next big recession tens of thousands of contracts will be cancelled by foreign companies no longer needing our ‘knowledge’ leading to millions being made unemployed.

6. Think about this. The West generally borrows, spends and consumes. The East invests, produces and saves. Who will end up in a better state there I wonder?

7. China has 1 in 5 of the world’s population and will very soon be the most important country in the world for doing business with. Are our children being offered Mandarin as a language at school? Are we being taught about Chinese business customs? We will in a generation become a bit part player in world business.

I could go on but it is starting to depress me Am I being unnecessarily paranoid? Or am I right to be concerned? Will we end up becoming crofters once again due to economic necessity?

Arn't you a happy little bunny.......

[jim]

You say 'the schools' don't teach mandarin, well... learn together at home... or get your school to teach it, your child's education is YOUR responsibility and how do you expect schools to give your child what she needs without your input.

Dear Annpam,

How I agree! In the dim past when Plowden was taken seriously I was trained to EDUCATE children to become flexible, independent learners. Then came the dark years of mircomanagement of schools by government and we've ended up with the monstrosity of the Nationalist Curriculum and the recent obscenity of proposing that teachers can be made effective after only six months training!

If the mess of party political dogma and pettit bourgeois prejudice that has passed as Education policy for the last 30 years continues then all children will learn is an empty list of skills decided by politicians and the Daily Mail.

Humanity needs an education that will nurture flexible and independent though and life long learning if we are to avoid the scenario envisaged by The Good Earth earlier in this thread. Educate your children to question and learn how to learn for themselves if you really want to help. I can't see any politician encouraging an eduation that prepares people to question .... can you?

Love and Peace
Jim

[Annpan]

That's why I am planning to home-educate E ..... or I am probably already doing it I guess.... she is only 2.5. She can go to school when she wants to, but by then I hope I will have given her a better grounding than a nursery or infant dept. would, at the very least.

[Rosendula]

That's why I am planning to home-educate E ..... or I am probably already doing it I guess.... she is only 2.5. She can go to school when she wants to, but by then I hope I will have given her a better grounding than a nursery or infant dept. would, at the very least.

Me too. I home-ed Katie and will continue to do so when she reaches school age. One of the biggest mistakes of my life was sending my older two to schools. Now they're not interested in education, or not what they think is education.