I need to pick brains

[MKG]

Right - imagine this. Two houses, each with a very long garden. OH lives in one and her mum in the other. When her mum died, OH inherited the house - now she owned two. Before selling her mum's house, she rearranged the gardens so that she held on to her own, but with the addition of half of her mum's garden - the bit furthest from the house. So, she ended up with a garden in the shape of very long "L". Got that?

OK - the current neighbour has now suggested that she might be willing to sell some of her garden to us (so if we bought it, the base of the "L" would fatten up a bit). We would like to buy it. There is no access to the plot other than via our garden or the neighbour's garden, so no chance of it ever becoming building land - it can only be used as a garden plot unless both houses are demolished and the whole thing replanned and, as we are in a conservation area, that is unlikely. The plot in question is approximately 30 feet square (just over 9 metres square for you metric heads).

The problem - we have not the foggiest idea how much money to offer for it, and our neighbour hasn't any idea what to ask for it. So, have any of you clever people any guidance for me?

Mike

[oldjerry]

Hmm..well solicitors costs are going to be relevant,so you'd have to pay enough,to cover them,or they'll be out of pocket.Land registry too.If it were me,Ithink I'd ignore the planning thing,take the price of a building plot with outline PP locally and see what it costs per sq metre then x by 9....???

[MKG]

Thanks OJ - but it's not 9 square metres, it's 9 metres square i.e. 81 square metres. The transfer itself isn't a problem and, in fact, doesn't need to go anywhere near a solicitor. However, if our neighbour chooses to us one, she will want to factor that into the price. If that price goes too high, there'll be no sale because we really hate lining the pockets of lawyers in situations where they're not needed.

I realise it's probably a "how long's a piece of string" question, but I was hoping someone would have an idea of the going price of a parcel of land of that size.

Mike

[MKG]

Hmmm - odd things happening, like double posts ...

[Millymollymandy]

I've deleted the double post, but can't help with the land price issue though.

[boboff]

I would say you would fall into the £5 to £10k per Acre remit for this. So would imagine £2000 as about right?

Just my thoughts.

[oldjerry]

Sorry Mike,cant do maths(or read),that size makes more sense.Agree with Boboff,it's got to be worth a few grand to make it worth the effort,and I'm pretty sure the land registry thing is a hundred or two.I've farmed for too long,so I have this pathological'cant have too much land' thing going on,so if you can afford it,and she wants to sell it,then I'd do it whatever the price,so what do I know?...Any how hope you can get it cheap as.....Best Wishes

[pelmetman]

It might be worth having a word with a local Estate Agent Mike. Its difficult to give a price as, of course, every area is different.

At the end of the day the land is worth what you are willing to pay for it.

Sorry can't be of much help.

Sue

If its any help, we paid £14 a square metre when we bought some of the field behind us

Dave

[MKG]

Thanks for that, Dave - you gave me a figure to play about with, which is what I was looking for.

The deal is agreed - quick work, eh? - and the neighbour was happy to accept £12 per square metre. Actually, she accepted £1000 which, after more careful measuring, works out at £12 per square metre. Everybody's happy.

Now all I need to do is work out how to get the Land Registry to deal with the transfer.

Mike

[Millymollymandy]

That's great. What's the plan for the new space, more veggies?

[prison break fan]

Wish I had a neighbour like that!! My neighbours are lovely people, but never go outside their back door!
Their garden is a wilderness, and I spend ages dealing with their brambles and nettles etc. But hey ho, they have to live next door to me!!! pbf.

[MKG]

That's great. What's the plan for the new space, more veggies?

No - a mini-orchard. The present orchard is getting very old and was planted when dwarfing rootstock hadn't been thought of too much. Hence giant trees, an awful lot of shade, and a lot of wasted fruit which insists on staying at the tops of the trees until the wasps and their mates have virtually hollowed them out. So, dwarf plums, damsons, apples and something-else-we-haven't-decided-on-yet, and a bit of soft fruit on the west side.

The sickener is that, having broken my back preparing a level site for that bloody shed, it's now in the wrong place!!!

Mike

[Green Aura]

pbf - tell your neighbours about Landshare - then sign up quick!

[Millymollymandy]

That's great. What's the plan for the new space, more veggies?

No - a mini-orchard. The present orchard is getting very old and was planted when dwarfing rootstock hadn't been thought of too much. Hence giant trees, an awful lot of shade, and a lot of wasted fruit which insists on staying at the tops of the trees until the wasps and their mates have virtually hollowed them out. So, dwarf plums, damsons, apples and something-else-we-haven't-decided-on-yet, and a bit of soft fruit on the west side.

The sickener is that, having broken my back preparing a level site for that bloody shed, it's now in the wrong place!!!

Mike

A mini orchards sounds brilliant and a lot easier to prune and care for - and to be honest just how much fruit can one eat/preserve anyway from big mature trees?

Sorry about your shed - that's funny!

[bonniethomas06]

Hi MKG,

You might struggle with dealing with the transfer on your own. First of all, I would check whether your neighbours property is registered (if it was bought prior to 1991 it may not be) likewise your own (I am sure you know whether it is or not). If theirs is not registered, it will need to be registered at the time that the transfer is registered which is frankly a flipping nightmare. You will need to produce original deeds to show at least 15 yrs ownership by your neighbour with no gaps.

Secondly, there are new anti-fraud measures in place at the land registry whereby if your transaction is not dealt with by a conveyancer (who can vouch for your identity) , you have to prove your identity to the land registry by going to one of their 10 offices with ID and filling in some forms.

Also, think about maps and plans - the LR uses ordinance survey maps to a certain scale (I can find out what it is if you don't already know). If you are transferring only part of a title (or unregistered parcel of land) you will need to produce plans drawn to the correct scale showing exactly which bits you are transferring - three milimetres here or there can equate to 6ft on the ground, so if your plan is even slightly incorrect when compared to their plans, they will reject the application. Usually surveyors draw up the maps (as you can sue them if they cock up!)

If you have a mortgage over your current property, you will often need to ask your mortgagee for permission, without written permission the LR will not register a transfer - likewise your neighbour.

One other thing to think about - I think from your email that you say there are no rights of way needed - in which case you will not have to refer to these in any transfer deed, however be careful to check whether there are any rights already attached to the land - as you will buy it subject to these rights whether you know about them or not. A conveyancer would typically conduct searches to make sure that, for example, the land is not subject to a mortgage - for example, if your neighbour has secured a loan on their house, if it is not discharged at the time of transfer, you will become liable to sell the land to pay it off! (extreme example but there are other things - no council order over the land, no other row's going through it etc). They would also check before the deal goes through that your neighbour has the right to sell it in the first place (i.e the person before them had the right to sell it etc).

I know as a lawyer I am biased, but to be honest when I have bought and sold houses even though I could have done it myself, I have paid someone else to do it - it is just not worth the risk or the hassle. Solicitors fees for this kind of thing (provided you are not having to carry out a first registration) should be £350+VAT max.

But good luck to you if you are going to do it yourself, I am sure it is possible with a little care and I would be happy to help if I can - I checked online and the fee should be around £50 for registration at the LR, plus searches etc.

How lovely to have the extra space though.. I echo OJ's thoughts - land is an excellent thing to buy and can only increase the value of your house. You can grow a lot of stuff on 81 square meters!