How much money is enough money?

[Andy Hamilton]

This year has been an interesting one job wise as I am still self employed. To pay the rent and bills I have been earning money by writing articles and taking people on forages. I keep telling people it does not pay enough and indeed my bank balance would agree.

However, I am pretty happy much more than when I was working in an office and the bills and rent are still getting paid - just don't mention next years tax bill. I might have some debt that will possibly hang around for a long time and I am sure that I should sort out a pension at some point. But is this not the same as most people. Will I ever earn enough; possibly not. I am starting to thing that enough is fairly abstract anyway and I should just forget about earning enough.

[Green Aura]

I'm not sure I can answer your question.

We're now living on about one third of our previous income - I'm still ploughing most of Green Aura's income into the business but next year I'll start drawing a proper income, I hope!. OH's income has dropped as well but we now both work from home, only run one car (infrequently) and have cut our shopping expenses dramatically.

If we could just offload the house in Manchester (we're still paying the mortgage and utilities etc) I think we would actually feel quite rich.

So it must all be a matter of attitude, once you've cleared all your bills etc of course.

When we lived in Manchester we had quite stressful jobs and "retail therapy" and several holidays a year felt necessary to keep us sane - I'm not sure how well it worked We never seemed to have enough of anything, but wasted an awful lot.

So how much do you need? A little above subsistence level for the occasional treat. But does subsistence include things like pension provision and stuff like that.

Sorry if that was a bit of a ramble

[contadino]

The cost of living here in Italy is roughly the same as the UK - some things are more expensive, others cheaper, but on the whole it works out roughly the same. We get by on €250/month. There's plenty of food on the table/wine in my glass, we have a roof over our heads, and it's warm in winter. That said, our only bills are car insurance & a bit of petrol, internet access, and electricity.

"Enough" is a pretty abstract concept. To me it means sufficient to not worry about the regular bills. To someone else it might mean covering the rent and a football season ticket, to someone else it might mean enough to get rotten drunk every Friday & Saturday night. Only you will know what "enough" is to you.

[Milims]

I remember that quite a while ago I posted on a thread about reducing outgoings by various "green" methods, and at the time complained that we did all these things but still weren't rolling in cash. Guess what........at least a year down the line we aren't rolling in cash but we certainly have a very happy and comfortable life - no major purchases like fancy holidays and stuff - but we are very happy with what we have, all the bills are paid, little or no debt, good fresh food, warmth, clothes, the odd treat - everything we really need. We haven't majorly changed out income but we certainly live much better on it and there is now a slush fund for emergencies and enough to share our lives with friends. I guess what I'm saying is that enough is what you make it.

[mrsflibble]

do you have a roof over your head? can you pay your bills?
do you have food?
do you have clothing and shoes?
you're fine then.

[Martina]

I dunno. What's enough? It's easy to say that as long as you have a roof over your head and food on the table, then you have enough. But let's be honest noone really wants to live in a situation where they are a slave to a mortgage and can barely provide sustenance for themselves. Also, I think some provisions for old-age are a must. Who wants to live off of charity in your golden years? Those are the years you are truly ment to enjoy the fruits of your labour and would you want to spend them eaking out an existance on what someelse (the state) has determined is adequate? I think one should always strive to live a life of their own making. So if "just getting by" is enough for you, then I guess that is enough. But what happens when you can no longer work for your keeping? Then you may end up in a very unpleasant place.

I would think the ideal of self-sufficientism is to do as much for yourself for as long you can while preparing for that time in life when you no longer able to. I would always want enough wealth ( I am using that word loosely here) to ensure that I had options, no matter what circumstances I may find myself in. Life can wind you towards some nasty places or bad situations and, if we are to speak truthfully, very often the difference between those who survive or rise above those circumstances and those who don't, is that some have enough wealth to exercise, or to have access to, options.

So what is enough? For me it would be necessities, occasional luxuries (like travel) and something in the kitty to keep from being stuck in a bad situation or indebted to someone else. So basically, I don't have a fix dollar amount either, I just try and keep these three things in mind when I am spending my paycheck.

Sorry for the ramble.
Have a great day.

Martina

[contadina]

Also, I think some provisions for old-age are a must. Who wants to live off of charity in your golden years? Those are the years you are truly ment to enjoy the fruits of your labour and would you want to spend them eaking out an existance on what someelse (the state) has determined is adequate? I think one should always strive to live a life of their own making. So if "just getting by" is enough for you, then I guess that is enough. But what happens when you can no longer work for your keeping? Then you may end up in a very unpleasant place.

Hmmm, I guess you are talking about pensions tied to the stock market. Pension schemes are long-term financial investments, which makes sense in times of steady growth; not in times of extreme uncertainty and the possibility of a stock market collapse.

I think getting yourself somewhere to grow your own food and, if possible investing in self-sufficient utilities would be a more prudent use of any savings. Definitely preferable to leaving them in the hands of a stockbroker/pension fund manager.

[Islay]

The retirement question is an interesting one. I suppose in a different time/place we could trust that family wouldn't see us starve, and would take over the food producing role at some point. We also live on about half of what we did a year ago, purely through living more frugally - we don't yet grow any meaningful quantity of food due to lack of space.

For us, enough will be enough to:
1) Pay the rent and save a deposit (switching to paying the mortgage when we buy somewhere)
2) Save some for any emergency
3) Pay any utilities that we can't generate ourselves
4) Pay for any bits of food that we can't grow
5) Save for retirement

Anything extra is a bonus, but will hopefully include enough to not be forced into a lifestyle that we don't want - I still like clothes and my boyfriend likes the odd gadget!

[Martina]

Also, I think some provisions for old-age are a must. Who wants to live off of charity in your golden years? Those are the years you are truly ment to enjoy the fruits of your labour and would you want to spend them eaking out an existance on what someelse (the state) has determined is adequate? I think one should always strive to live a life of their own making. So if "just getting by" is enough for you, then I guess that is enough. But what happens when you can no longer work for your keeping? Then you may end up in a very unpleasant place.

Hmmm, I guess you are talking about pensions tied to the stock market. Pension schemes are long-term financial investments, which makes sense in times of steady growth; not in times of extreme uncertainty and the possibility of a stock market collapse.

I think getting yourself somewhere to grow your own food and, if possible investing in self-sufficient utilities would be a more prudent use of any savings. Definitely preferable to leaving them in the hands of a stockbroker/pension fund manager.

I don't know what the situation in Italy is like, but in Canada we have government savings plans that one can pay into. The money invested in here is not taxed until you withdraw it to live on (when you retire and are at a lower tax bracket). Other savings initiatives are a tax-free savings account (no tax on the interest) and other options with are tied to mutual funds, stocks etc. However, even stocks and bonds can be self-directed (no need to get a broker or agent), so you just go through your bank and pay a minor service charge for each transaction--that's what I do. I would never trust anyone else to act in my best interest---even in good/stable financial times. I'd rather mess up and lose a few dollars here and there, as long as the over all trend is growth. Remember too that so called "bad times" can be great times for the hesitatant investor, with a little cash and research, to buy into the market.

Have a great day,
Martina

[Big Al]

I've tried to post a reply to this one 4 times now and failed. It is a difficult one. If you can pay for food, shelter and utillities then that is enough. If that is the case I've not got enough but having said that i think you should get as much as you can but keep a balance between work and play so to speak. If you get as much as you can now then you can always give away money to good causes at a time suitable for you.

HTH

[Flo]

If you can cover your bills but not the tax come next year, HMRC will make the decision for you at some point as to what you are going to do Mr Hamilton. And having been there, it's no fun I'll tell you now and there is no happiness for some years in the aftermath of what will happen.

Enough is shelter, food, heating, water, clothes, minimum furniture, enough to pay your dues to the state and friends. Anything else is bunce. Provide for it how you will - preferably by honest means.

Happiness is what you make of your situation.

Step dad's family had been bankrupt and homeless in the Great Depression. Thereafter, so long as he and his siblings could work and provide enough shelter, food, heating, water, clothes, minimum good furniture for themselves and their families as well as paying their taxes they were happy. He was severely physically disabled but worked and provided for us kids and mother. It was a good upbringing in that it provided a good grounding in what is important in life.

[snapdragon]

earn what you can, grow what you can and be happy - sounds ideal

earnings are relative, but happiness is infinite

[boboff]

£214,356.45

That is enough.

[Stonehead]

The answer depends too heavily on other people and time-specific circumstances.

Four weeks ago I would have said we had enough money. There was money in the bank, we had a healthy cash float, bills were being paid, pigs were being sold, and we were even able to an Indian takeout meal (which happens about three times a year).

This week, we can't access the money in our accounts, the pig buyers reneged on their commitments, our cash float is non-existent, we can't pay bills that are coming due, we have bills for straw and pig housing coming up, and we can't buy one of the boys a new sweatshirt for school (fortunately the weather decied to warm up yesterday and today). We did get the other boy a "new" sweatshirt from the school lost property box but couldn't find one that fitted the other.

Yes, the mortgage is paid, we have enough food for us for months, we have enough food for the pigs for 10 days. But we're in danger of leaving other people in the lurch because we don't have enough money.

Hopefully, in another four weeks we'll have enough money again...

[grahamhobbs]

For the vast majority there is rarely enough. It may be our country but the vast majority are disenfranchised from our own land. We cannot be self-sufficient because we are not allowed access to land on which to be self-sufficient. The majority are squeezed into tiny plots for which we have to pay, and the system calculates we have to pay so much in taxes, rent, mortgages, etc that the majority will never stop running. The answer to how much money is enough, is when you can, one way or another, get off this treadmill.