Selfsufficientish.com

I surrender. Last year I almost killed myself trying to dig our heavy clay allottment (unused for 6 years and a local hotspot for couch grass/twitch/nettles and thistles).

This year I have decided to think seriously about copping myself a rotovator. My parents bought a 4 stroke mantis last year and recommended it, but it's a lot of money - £340 is the cheapest I've seen.

Bearing in mind that my soil is a mess, and I am going to need to be turning it over and digging in organic matter a LOT in the next couple of years, am I right to think of buying something, or should I just hire something? And what?

I've had carpet down for a year now, and it's done a good job, so all I need now is to break the surface up and get gardening...

Can you borrow one? or try a tool rental company?

That is alot of money, and you will have to store it somewhere.

Otherwise, I'd say don't use a rotorvator if you have any bind weed or ground elder... you are just making hundreds of cuttings and scattering all over the place.

No subsitute for hard work, mark out do a strip at a time. Rotavating will worsen your problems.

i agree with anne and just skint, rotorvator will just promote cuttings and problems sorry to say hard work is the only sure fire way to cut down on weeds and pests. being of the old and lazy fraternity, thats the reason i made raised beds easy on the back and easier to keep clean.
good luck

Russ

old tree man

When I first started my plot I did the same as you, and with the same result agony, for days after, so bought a small cheap Honda 2nd hand and since then I have used it. The width of the cutters is only 15 inches so I plant in rows of 24inchs apart which means that I am able to lightly rotavate between the rows as soon as a weed appears,. during the winter months I rotavate 3 or 4 times across the plot and up and down and keep the patch covered, in the spring I do this again, and I find that the only problems I have now are the annual weeds. Before I started the plot it had been fallow since 1948 and was full of bindweed but now this seems to have disappeared, I thought that it would have been necessary to deep dig every year but on talking to my neighbour he pointed out that he in the past used to plough with cow and single blade and that was only 6 inches deep. So that is my experience, and for what it is worth I hope it helps you ,


Regards Eddy

Thanks for the advice.

Thankfully there is no bindweed or ground elder, just lots and lots of twitch, interspersed with a few nettles and thistles for variety. My lottie neighbour tells me that the only way to turn this ground is mechanically - she resorted to bribing a local farmer to plough hers! My neighbour on the other side is a good example of the fact that once the soil is in use and being regularly dug and used, it is really good soil, but he tells me that the main battle is the stage I'm at.

I also have the problem that I know there are at least three other people after my plot. If I can't show that I can utilise the whole plot, there is serious risk that it will be taken away from me and given to someone else - hence my panicked desire for mechanical help! Last year, with serious back problems (I think I spent as much on the osteopath as a rotovator hire would cost!) I managed to cultivate about a quarter of it, but lost most of the structure in the floods, so am effectively starting from scratch again.

Once I can actually get my spade *into* the ground, I'll be away. Until then... it's a bit challenging!

When I got my allotment last year we rotivated it , and were mortified by the results!

However.. after talking to my stepdad who is a gardner by trade, he says if you rotivate every 11 days for a couple of months, all the weeds, bindweed and couch grass roots will die as they will run out of energy to keep trying to sprout!

Dori wrote:....you rotivate every 11 days for a couple of months, all the weeds, bindweed and couch grass roots will die as they will run out of energy to keep trying to sprout!

I'll have to try that. I just bought a roto-vator to try and deal with our heavy clay.

Every 11 days sounds odd

Does this mean that if I dig every 11 days I would still clear bindweed and ground elder - I have TONNES of it, and desperate to clear it without chemicals

Worth a go I guess

I'm with Russ raised beds every time. I inheriteted a really bad plot with marestail, couchgrass, thistles,dock and brambles.

I spoke to a few people and modified what they and GQT etc advised. My mate rotivated, and has lived to regret it.
Because the slow approach takes time you have to cover up what your not digging and turning into raised beds. This in itself helps kill some of the weeds by doing nothing!. And the pressure to get stuck in and blitz the weeds goes. We left a bit because we underestimated how long it was going to take , the couch and thistles soon took over, so we literally flatten the area then put weed suppressant on top. no digging/weeding until this year, we've already tackeled two new beds on this area this winter, much easier with no top growth weeds, and drier soil from the suppressant.
We're on the second season starting with the raised beds I made this time last year, and all I've had to do is a light hoe to break up the soil, hardly any weeds. We double dug the beds last year and went through very carefully by hand to get rid of the roots. Took a lot of time, and it was still an ongoing process all last year, but now its easy.No more digging in those beds....EVER!

It is interesting about rotivating every 11 days for a month, as its the kind of approach that is the same as careful digging and raised beds. How ever even doing this in a large area is going to expose a large amount of soil ripe for annual weeds to encroach, thus your going to be continually weeding instead of planting.

After the weed suppressing, and initial bed making to get some produce in, the next thing for me during this winter was to put a up a new weed proof fence. This is now done, and should again free up time during the growing season to get on and grow stuff, instead of trying to combat nature.

Annpan wrote:Every 11 days sounds odd

Does this mean that if I dig every 11 days I would still clear bindweed and ground elder - I have TONNES of it, and desperate to clear it without chemicals

Worth a go I guess

I'm not quite sure why that number of days is significant, but I'm game! Anything for less bindwed and couch will suit me! problem is, I don't have a rotivator, and I think our lotty neighbours will be less than impressed if we keep asking!

The idea is only with rotivators I think as it chops everything so small, they run out of energy trying to reroot if you do it often for a couple of months.
katie x

I have couch grass with ground elder in my front garden, the logical approach is to dig one area at a time and insert a barrier between old and new so that weed roots can't travel laterally.

Well, I've just investigated rotovator hire, and the price seems to be about £80+ a week, which seems very steep. If I'm going to try rotovating regularly (ie. every 10/11 days - which sounds like good advice), then I'm going to be broke in very short order. I may well be looking at the purchase plan again!

However, having seen the mess my chooks have made of my back garden lawn, I reckon that if I write to the council and ask permission to put my chooks down on the unused bit of allotment, they will do a good job of scratching up all the couch grass :-) Natural rotovators... If only I could get permission for a pig, I'd be sorted!

So, my current plan is... See if I can get the resources for raised beds (don't have access to anyway of getting topsoil to my allotment, so could be problematical, even if I find some), reserve an area for chooks to scratch up (after mowing - I know the dangers of long grass!) and rotovate what's left.

Right! That feels like a plan!

Our rented field is very heavy clay. Each spring I get it ploughed and then power-harrowed twice but I still have to rotovate it to break the soil back further.

I have hired in the past one of these I think I paid £85 for three days inc delivery. I cannot afford to buy one, and would grudge it taking up room in the workshop for 11 months of the year. Plus it's to maintain.

I was cultivating an acre mind....

The comments on chopping up roots are very valid. Thankfully by getting the acre ploughed I have not had that problem, only you will know if it is going to be an issue. Other gardeners experience will be very valid guess.

Lincolnshirelass wrote:
So, my current plan is... See if I can get the resources for raised beds (don't have access to anyway of getting topsoil to my allotment, so could be problematical, even if I find some)

We've got 7 raised beds so far, and I've not added any extra soil in, it's all from the area of the raised bed.

We've double dug it , and this increases the volume of the soil considerable (say 15cm). First season that what we used, and I got delivered in a couple of tonnes of muck to rot down. During this winter on the beds that need it I've put about 20cm thick layer to get worked in by frost and worms.

So you don't need top soil. Also if your growing brassica's mushroom compost is cheap to add in along with muck.
Leaf mold also good for root veg, and this litterally falls from the trees!