Selfsufficientish.com

It is becoming apparent with these diseases that keep emerging, that either not enough is being done to contain and keep animal areas clean or, that the government is on a one track mind to quash the farming industry. It is well known that imports are considerably cheaper and that if there were no livestock farmers in this country, then the government would not have to fork out millions of cash to help support them. So whats going on then? I'm open to thoughts, ideas, and suggestions of what you folks out there think.................

The last two outbreaks in the UK have been from research laboratories. I don't think the government has decided to sabotage the farming industry per se, more that they have a well-funded and powerful lobby from the agro-chemical companies making demands on them. The agro-chemical companies clearly want to see British agriculture wholly dependent on them, and the odd outbreak of F&M only helps towards that goal.

It's the same for GM crops. Strains resistant to strong herbicides mean that farmers have to buy those strong herbicides from agro-chemical companies, along with fertilizer to replenish the dead soil that the herbicides create.

IMO, the government is to blame only in that it is listening to agro-chemical companies above the electorate.

and the seeds as well, gm crops will be the only thing capable of growing anywhere if they get there way

although i have some support for farmers, i don't see why it should be the only industry to receive government subsidies and also be the only one not to insure their assets (animals).

this is a deeply complex matter - I think the problem started after the last war - the government took over the reins to ensure production of food in wartime, and unfortunately, along the way took up with the agrochemical companies, who now control everything.
Personally, I'd like to see the end of all subsidies and government interference in agriculture.
Had it not been for the pressure of the government and agrobusiness concerns we could have become the premier producers of organic produce in Europe, but for years, organic farming was positively DIScouraged by the ministry................
I think we need a dose of reality - let people pay the real price of food again, it may be appreciated more!
(on principle I'm against ALL subsidies - on everything - it's a hopelessly wasteful way of doing it) - they collect £2,000 in taxes, and take around 50% of that for doing so - they then have £1,000 left for grants - the grants body will then soak up £600 in "admin" to leave £400 that actually gets to the end user........

ps, a classic example of subsidy lunacy was the "calf export" furore - it was clutter all to do with flogging the poor things to continental farmers, the trick was to bounce them all round Europe collecting fat subsidies all the way!

possum wrote:although i have some support for farmers, i don't see why it should be the only industry to receive government subsidies and also be the only one not to insure their assets (animals).

In the UK at least, farming is far from being the only subsidised industry. Airlines, construction, power generation, pharmaceuticals are just a few of the others. And of course, there's arms manufacturers.

The only reason I can cite for farming support: we all have to eat; farming is what keeps us alive. None of us needs airtravel or even power generation in the same way - we can all exist (some wouldn't call it living, though) without electricity, but not without food. The subsidies farmers receive are what makes our food so cheap - so it's really us customers who are being subsidised (out of the taxes we pay); not a single farmer I have ever talked to wouldn't prefer not to have subsidies, but fair prices for their produce. And only a very few, mostly large landowners, manage to get more than just a living out of the subsidies; a lot don't even get that.

Contadino, you say:
"The agro-chemical companies clearly want to see British agriculture wholly dependent on them, and the odd outbreak of F&M only helps towards that goal."

I don't quite understand that. After all, F&M always leaves a few more farmers giving up their farms - so you could say with F&M some of agro-chemistry's customers are being killed off. Wouldn't it be in the interest of the industry to prevent F&M and other diseases?

Martin wrote:...the grants body will then soak up £600 in "admin" to leave £400 that actually gets to the end user........

Don't forget the other important factor, that admin pays for civil servants and the government loves civil servants ... the more the merrier (& the more to vote for large government come the next election).

ina wrote:Contadino, you say:
"The agro-chemical companies clearly want to see British agriculture wholly dependent on them, and the odd outbreak of F&M only helps towards that goal."

I don't quite understand that. After all, F&M always leaves a few more farmers giving up their farms - so you could say with F&M some of agro-chemistry's customers are being killed off. Wouldn't it be in the interest of the industry to prevent F&M and other diseases?

And what happens to those small farms where the farmer has had to throw the towel in? Generally speaking, the land is bought at cut-down price by industrial agriculture. The number of farmers in the UK is on the decline, as has been widely reported in the press over the last 5 years. Industrial agriculture is in the pocket of the agro-chemical industry. Trying to find an above 1,000 acre organic farm is like looking for a needle in a haystack.

contadino wrote:And what happens to those small farms where the farmer has had to throw the towel in? Generally speaking, the land is bought at cut-down price by industrial agriculture.

Not around here. They get a hefty price tag slapped on them and are described as "suitable for equestrian purposes".

Stonehead wrote: Not around here. They get a hefty price tag slapped on them and are described as "suitable for equestrian purposes".

Exactly - and looking at the state a lot of them are in, they don't use many chemicals... (Unfortunately they often don't know how to manage them properly without chemicals, either). And I do know huge organic farms - that's the way all that organic veg is produced for the supermarkets...

You may be right for some areas, though. Interesting thought.