Selfsufficientish.com

Hello there ,

like most other european countries Holland is going belly up aswell , greek style , but this is not being spoken out loud.
Elections are coming and the promises the 2 feced B!@#!@# make !

Why do we not all try and help the governements , proposal :

we all get our salaries or wages paid to the governements bank account , and then at the end of the week they can pay us
something like 50 € for food .In this way they should be out of debt in 3 million years .
Also it would make all the "European " civil servants useless out there in Brussels , with so much money coming in
they will not have to make up stupid rules about how to rip us of even more .

regards ,

Paul

I came to the conclusion many years ago that as someone who is married runs his own business and has no kids that I would be a meal ticket for every politcian on the planet, hence I semi retired and have spent the last few years trying to live as frugal as possible, but primarily enjoying our life on this planet

You may find this interesting (if enraging)
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/ ... TE=DEFAULT

I wish the public had been able to see that before the election, Jeremy! They might not have voted Tory quite so much

Sorry, know we're not political here, I'll get my coat.......

Which bit were you reading, GA?

Mike

Hello there ,

after Greece and Ireland (UK) , who's next ?
Portugal or Spain , maybe even Belguim .
Luckily Holland is still buying 85 Joint Strike Fighters , is the uk still in for the 2 Carriers ?

regards ,

Paul

I s'pose when the West is going through another cyclical economic and social meltdown, living(as much as poss) on the outside of the madness I should be pretty smug,but I just feel anger.It's now that the unfairness,doublespeak,and downright bullshit comes flooding out,as those who can least afford it, pay the price of 'a return to growth'.
Meanwhile,on the box in the corner. some chirpy halfwit on £100 grand a year will fill endless hours of empty airtime monstering anyone who dares to question what is quite clearly the only path to take.

The suffering of millions in the so called developing world is forgotten as they sink even further into misery. Their starving poor wouldn't mind being poor in Spain or Ireland - at least they would eat. The world's economy is largely run for the benefit of the very rich, who we never see, and the rest of us get the scraps off the table in good times and pay the bills in bad times.

paul123456 wrote:Hello there ,

after Greece and Ireland (UK) , who's next ?
Portugal or Spain , maybe even Belguim .
Luckily Holland is still buying 85 Joint Strike Fighters , is the uk still in for the 2 Carriers ?

regards ,

Paul

Portugal, Ireland, Greece, Spain, Holland, Italy... can you see where it's going?

Does that mean Turkey is next? Or Thailand?

Portugal, Ireland, Greece, Spain, Holland, Italy... can you see where it's going? [/quote]

...........the whole of the capitalist world?........the banks lent billions out, borrowing from each other, but underpinned on 'derivatives and futures', ie. the expectation of making future profits. They (fraudulently) created massive amounts of new capital (capital 'invented', not arising from historic profit) but this capital was in competition with itself and unable to make the level of profits expected to finance that new capital. The way to restore profitability to capital is to either to destroy the excess capital - factories, services, etc have to close or they have to extract even more profit out of us - lower wages and benefits, higher bills and taxes,

Initially they looked into the abyss and they weren't prepared to plunge the world into a 30's style depression and printed even more money. They may pretend they are cleverer now, learnt from the 30's, but capital has its own logic, it has to make a profit, but this money has even less hope of making a profit and so we are now seeing each individual country, bank, and capitalist within countries clamouring to claw back as much money as they can. Governments will talk of difficult times, we all in this together and accept cuts, etc, etc. At first it will be the people that suffer, but when, even after they have turned the screws even harder, they realise they can't extract enough from them (Ireland can never realistically repay the debts it supposedly owes the banks), they will turn to destroying capital .................

grahamhobbs wrote:Governments will talk of difficult times, we all in this together and accept cuts, etc, etc. At first it will be the people that suffer, but when, even after they have turned the screws even harder, they realise they can't extract enough from them (Ireland can never realistically repay the debts it supposedly owes the banks), they will turn to destroying capital .................

Governments take money from the taxpayer and use that money to bail out the banks either by buying into them or by underwriting their debts. The banks use the money or the surities they have been given to make more money.

One of the chief ways in which they can try to do this is to lend money to the very same governments who bailed them out by buying gilts or similar government bonds.

The government - or, to be precise, the taxpayer - pays the banks interest on these gilts or bonds, thus effectively paying for the privilage of handing over the bailout money in the first place.

Economics.

It's a game.

But not one, for some curious reason, that is taught as part of the general curiculum.

Ellendra wrote:Does that mean Turkey is next? Or Thailand?

Or maybe t'UK?

or 'The rest of the capitalist world'?

MW

The Riff-Raff Element wrote:....................... pays the banks interest on these gilts or bonds, thus effectively paying for the privilage of handing over the bailout money in the first place.

Economics.

It's a game.

:

Riff-Raff, your analysis is impeccable, this is what is happpening, but they can't keep on going round in circles like this... there will come a time when they realise they can't extract enough money from us and they can't keep the pretence going, then the system will start to collapse, agreements won't work and they will turn in on one another, each fighting to save their own bit of capital at the expense of others, but things are so interconnected as you have described, that whole countries are going to collapse like a pack of cards.