Selfsufficientish.com

Headline news today - Pope Benedict is deeply concerned about UK 'equal rights' laws enabling gays and lesbians to access high positions in the church. Could it be that he's concerned that with gays and lesbians in these positions there may be less opportunity for the established 'kiddy fiddlers' in the catholic church?

Well, hmm, risky area this, but it provoked thought so I'll air it, if it offends have a think about it!!

the dailymash sums it up better than my rant

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/scie ... 002022430/

Had a look at the 'dailymash' conclusion, he's bonkers!!

Seems to have a long history of getting on the wrong side of an issue, doesn't he?

Mike

MKG wrote:Seems to have a long history of getting on the wrong side of an issue, doesn't he?

Mike

Yes, I bet the pope and prince philip could cook up a storm of controversy!

I couldn't disagree more strenuously.

The Pope is an easy target for many who forget that true culpability lies with those who committed the offences of paedaphelia. Pope Benedict XVI more than any other Pope before him, has spoken out vehementally against the actions of the priests whose have committed such evil acts.

I don't know the up to date stats but there are approx half a million Catholic priests in the world and the tiniest percentage of those are paedophiles, so let's get things in to perspective. The vocation of the priest is essentially to serve others and the majority are self sacrificing and do a good deal to make the world a better place to live in.

As the physically present leader of the Catholic Church throughout the world, the Pope would be remiss in not speaking out...as usual, even when he does so, people complain and ridicule him....if he says nothing at all, the exact same thing happens.

This is probably one of those times when I shouldn't be typing into a forum late at night, but here goes.....

As a most devout atheist living deep in the heart of catholic Ireland, I am witnessing first hand, the mass 'walkout' of the catholic church. Many folks who have been used to attending church on a daily basis have in recent months & weeks decided that they can no longer be a part of an organisation that has strived to cover up some of the most heinous crimes we know.

Bloody good on 'em, I say! Many irish folk here feel that the pope didn't go far enough, or act quickly enough with his 'apology' speech. Whether he was involved or not, he should have made the abuse cases a priority & he should have been seen to be taking some sort of action personally.

If this had been government ministers, it would have seen action a lot quicker, I think.

I will not even begin to understand why the catholic church has such a hold over people - for a start, why on earth would folk want to pay their hard earned money into building & maintaining thousands of properties so they can go along to worship a god? Shouldn't a god be omnipotent & be available anywhere? Why does a god have to have a special house? And I thought that false idols were frowned upon? If so, why the need for elaborate statues of jesus or mary?

Sorry.... religion... I just don't get it.

Oooh, I can see you being kicked out of the country Julie
As another devout atheist, I don't understand religion either, but as far as your question goes ... as I understand Catholicism it is forbidden for Catholics to talk to God directly, they must get a priest to do it on their behalf. Hence all the churches, priests, nuns, monks etc here in Ireland.
So, no praying at home and cutting out the middle men.

What I particularly like about your post Julie is your comments in the body of your post, which is then followed by your signature tag line

Tony, you're right!! But I do pray occasionally - irreverently, I might add
So.... if these catholic people aren't allowed to talk to god on his direct line, why do they have 'stations'???

I don't understand stations either, but I know that 6 yrs ago or so, the family had one here & bought a job lot of cheap naff carpet & did the bungalow right through for the occasion! Maybe god didn't like the nice cork flooring that was underneath?

Odsox wrote:as I understand Catholicism it is forbidden for Catholics to talk to God directly, they must get a priest to do it on their behalf. Hence all the churches, priests, nuns, monks etc here in Ireland.
So, no praying at home and cutting out the middle men.

well you don't understand Catholicism then - wrong...

Odsox wrote:as I understand Catholicism it is forbidden for Catholics to talk to God directly, they must get a priest to do it on their behalf. Hence all the churches, priests, nuns, monks etc here in Ireland.
So, no praying at home and cutting out the middle men.

you are wrong there.

technically, you are meant to talk/pray to Christ and he will have a word with god for you, but it is all rolled up in a 3-in-one thing anyway,many christians are unsure if you ask. In fact you can pray at who ever you want, Christ, Mary or any of the saints (which there are loads of). While it does contradict other teachings in the bible but no one seems to mind, just so long as you pay.

It is all part of the hierarchy, with everyday people at the bottom of course, priests, nuns, monks, bishops, cardinals, up to the pope all being closer to God than you can possibly get, which is what I have a problem with, because that is not what the bible says.

I do understand why people think it is OK to have gold plated churches, huge amounts of cash while billions in the world starve and do not have access to clean water. again, that is not what the bible says.

Mullein wrote:

Odsox wrote:as I understand Catholicism it is forbidden for Catholics to talk to God directly, they must get a priest to do it on their behalf. Hence all the churches, priests, nuns, monks etc here in Ireland.
So, no praying at home and cutting out the middle men.

well you don't understand Catholicism then - wrong...

In that case I apologise.
In my defence I did point out that I didn't understand religion, so I will amend that to ALL religions, Catholocism included.

I'm a total and unremitting atheist, but the history of religion is one of my abiding fascinations.

The RC church was, even from its inception, not about religion and certainly not about christianity. It was power from start to finish. It is not coincidental that the early church did its level best to establish itself in all parts of the militarily crumbling Roman Empire, and it should be common knowledge that when the pope sent St. Augustine to these islands, he was actually preaching to the converted - Celtic christianity was already well-established and the only real dispute was about the dating of Easter. Christianity was already here - just not the sort of obedient, unquestioning christianity the RC church favoured.

Given that it is power-based in origin, I see no reason to hold out any special treatment for such an organisation. However, it has always demanded special treatment for itself, culminating in the doctrine of papal infallibility - which was introduced in, I believe, the 19th century (18th at the earliest). Just that - introduced. It certainly prevented any arguments with the pope for quite some time, no matter how daft any particular pope was. However, if he insists on infallibility then he must also expect to be attacked when he is forced to admit that there has been "something nasty in the woodshed" of his organisation for some time.

Of course the majority of priests are not paedophiles - that's not the issue, though. What the row is all about is the well-established and proven denial and deception (and even positive encouragement to hide the facts) of the RC organisation. It is my belief that such actions are illegal just about anywhere in the world.

It isn't because it's a church that it's being attacked. It's because ANY group of people doing what they have undeniably done SHOULD be attacked. The sheer hypocrisy of an organisation claiming christian values and then riding roughshod over all of their avowed principles smacks a little of bullshit.

Just tuppenceworth.

Mike

MKG wrote:What the row is all about is the well-established and proven denial and deception (and even positive encouragement to hide the facts) of the RC organisation. It is my belief that such actions are illegal just about anywhere in the world.

Quite so, see .... http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/ ... 31699.html
That gives you some idea of the arrogance involved.
It puts a different slant on "Suffer little children ....."

katholicos wrote:The Pope is an easy target for many who forget that true culpability lies with those who committed the offences of paedaphelia. Pope Benedict XVI more than any other Pope before him, has spoken out vehementally against the actions of the priests whose have committed such evil acts.

Not quite, he's just as guilty as others in the Catholic Church who have chosen to turn a blind eye http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 075237.ece

With a long history of cover-ups providing such a safe haven it's hardly surprising pedophiles have been so attracted to the priesthood.