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What a complete and utter miserable sod!

I remember my old nanny telling me when I was akid that Santa was actually related ( a son, I think she said) to one of the three wise men.... and that's WHY he carried on the tradition of giving gifts to kids.....

He's shot himself in the foot if you ask me. Christmas is magical for kids. In later life if they are going to seriously 'find religion' then there's a good chance that they'll turn to the one that played a big part in their childhood, regardless of whether it stressed the fable of Santa or the fable of Jesus. A lady who has worked tirelessly for my mum's church, and who is a remarkable needlewoman, has spent the best part of the past year (and a considerable sum of her own money) making the most beautiful dressing-up clothes for children; Cinderella gowns, pirates, fairies. She then donated the lot to the church Christmas fair, all profits to go to the church. The vicar 'seized' the lot, claiming that they were pagan as they were 'Hallowe'en costumes' and refused to allow them to be sold. He's lost one devoted parishoner and robbed many children of the joy of having something lovely for their dressing-up boxes. I don't understand the logic, it's not as if there was a single Hallowe'en-type outfit there, no ghosts or witches or anything that should seriously have upset him.

Mind you, Santa worship is hardly healthy is it? Teaching kids that they get something for nothing is a poor lesson in basic economics.

In fact, we could go further and suggest that Santa is the evil so-and-so that manipulated people into spending way beyond their means and getting us all into this filthy mess

The Riff-Raff Element wrote:Mind you, Santa worship is hardly healthy is it? Teaching kids that they get something for nothing is a poor lesson in basic economics.

In fact, we could go further and suggest that Santa is the evil so-and-so that manipulated people into spending way beyond their means and getting us all into this filthy mess

Not so, surely children have to be "good" to receive presents from Santa, at least during the hectic few days before Christmas.
And taken logically, presents from parents, grandparents and other relations are "something for nothing" aren't they ?
Sounds to me like you want to abolish Christmas altogether

Odsox wrote:

The Riff-Raff Element wrote:Mind you, Santa worship is hardly healthy is it? Teaching kids that they get something for nothing is a poor lesson in basic economics.

In fact, we could go further and suggest that Santa is the evil so-and-so that manipulated people into spending way beyond their means and getting us all into this filthy mess

Not so, surely children have to be "good" to receive presents from Santa, at least during the hectic few days before Christmas.
And taken logically, presents from parents, grandparents and other relations are "something for nothing" aren't they ?
Sounds to me like you want to abolish Christmas altogether

Ah, I'd suggest the presents from parents, etc, are clear expressions of love and of valuing the person to whom they are being given.

Presents from Santa are frequently recieved as a "right" and the matter of how they are paid for and by whom is all rather obscure. I think that's a poor lesson for life, personally.

And have you recently heard of a child having their Nintendo DS or whatever denied them because they were naughty? Probably counts as abuse that.

I really like Christmas - turkey, drinking fizzy stuff, spending time with family & friends, the comtemplation of times past and to come - but I find the crass commercialism very tiresome.

The most depressing phrase in the English language for me? "Go orn 'ave one! It's Christmas!"

I'm not sure I agree, RRE. I too hate the commercialism of Christmas, but at least if kids ask for something for Christmas they do have to wait for it. I doubt the instant gratification that many would enjoy if there were no Christmas to wait for would do them any good either.

In my book, Santa, has as much creditabilty, as the story of Christmas, and probably promotes more goodwill than any Religion.

oldfella wrote:In my book, Santa, has as much creditabilty, as the story of Christmas, and probably promotes more goodwill than any Religion.

Certainly he has an important role as patron saint of the retail industry to whom he traditionally spreads spreads goodwill and lashings of cash at this time of year

I always planned not to tell my son the santa thing. I hate the total deception, they way it becomes a newsworthy story if someone tells what they consider to be the truth.. the way even the newsreaders join in. we teach our kids to not lie.. and then we all do it


Of course my idea was met with horror, and everyone.. and i mean everyone, teachers, even complete strangers.. felt it their duty to tell this story to my son. So in the end i gave my version. He has had fun with it over the years, been excited, tracked santa etc
Now we see FC not as a person, but more like the spirit of the season, the feeling of joy goodwill etc.

at this time of year i am aware of the tragedies that occur every day to families, happening at Christmas too. Car crashes, disease.... to lesser but still awful things like redundancy, homelessness.

"You've ruined my children's Christmas," said one mother.

she needs to get a little perspective, and just tell her child that the man was wrong, if its so important.

We used to tell our two that Santa just delivered the pressies, but Nana, Granny, Mum & Dad etc sent them to him. He made special pressies in his workshop for poor children whose family couldn't afford stuff.



MW

Oh shame on him, it's hardly going to have people rushing through his doors is it?

My OH usually presses the mute button when the adverts come on TV and they normally go straight over my head if he isn't around to do it but I did overhear something the other evening that went something like...

" go on, give your kids lots of presents, it's what Christmas is all about..."

Oh, really?

Actually I'm not sure most UK residents are really aware of what a rampaging monster Christmas has now become there and that, other than the States (where at least the "Christmas" season doesn't officially start until Thanksgiving in late November) most places aren't so badly taken in by the hype. It's a much quiter affair in both France and Spain but kids get Xmas presents, people invite friends to eat etc. Why this absolute obsession with shopping ourselves silly, fighting through supermarkets which become a little like I imagine the bull runs must be in the streets of northern Spain, succumbing totally to insincere and cynical advertising. At the end of the day an awful lot of money will have been spent, a lot of perfectly good food will have been thrown out and a lot of mindless rubbish will have been viewed on TV.

Why this absolute obsession with shopping ourselves silly, fighting through supermarkets which become a little like I imagine the bull runs must be in the streets of northern Spain, succumbing totally to insincere and cynical advertising. At the end of the day an awful lot of money will have been spent, a lot of perfectly good food will have been thrown out and a lot of mindless rubbish will have been viewed on TV.

Merry Christmas!


Edited to add the quote because I suddenly realised people might think I was laughing at the article - I wasn't. I was laughing (politely) at Graye having a good ole rant (which, btw, I quite agree with and have managed to avoid the worst of it this year)

It's a bit of a non-story as Santa doesn't bring Italian children presents. Although the story mentions Befana who does visit on January 6th with either gifts or coal, depending on how well little Giuseppe and Maria have behaved during the year, the gifts are just little trinkets, and importantly, there is no confusion with celebrating Christmas. I'm not religious, but I think it's right that a priest should get children to think about the birth of Christ rather than what toys they are gong to receive.

Now, the Pope's alarming comments about homosexuality, on the other hand, make me want to weep.

contadina wrote:
Now, the Pope's alarming comments about homosexuality, on the other hand, make me want to weep.

Good Lord ('scuse the pun) yes.


In our house Santa exists, he leaves gifts for all of us, always has, always will - mostly it is some DVDs and chocolates, but if we need/want new things in October/November/December, we usually put it back and 'ask santa' for it.

When I was younger Santa came to all of us - 6 kids, widowed Mum. Can you imagine what my Mum thought when, a week after loosing her husband, Santa left her a stocking full of gifts (that is some quick thinking teenagers there).

Some years Santa would bring one of us kids a piece of furniture, or a kettle, or a hoover, or pots (whatever was needed) and he always brought pyjamas, socks and underwear

E will hopefully find out, in the same way I did that Santa DOES exist, he is the personification of the christmas spirit and if we happen to envisage him as a jolly old elf, then it is hardly causing harm is it?


The commercialisation is a different matter - We need to reclaim Christmas and Santa as ours.....