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Just listened to RADIO 4 "Our Food Our Future" and heard about the manufacture of "in-vitro meat".

This involves growing animal cells in nutrient solution to form slabs of muscle. The example in the article was pig muscle, the interviewer described it as "twitching".

Here comes the silly question ..... anyone fancy a slice of roast in-vitro pork?

Right, now we've got through the emotional bit (which I'd predict will involve revulsion, disgust and related responses) here comes the hard part .....

Does anyone have any really rational , backed by evidence, counter argument to the bio industry claims that this is necessary to feed increased populations? That those who believe this to be more about bio industry profits rather than humanitarian concern are Luddites in the way of scientific progress? (They will come up with such responses and I believe public awareness should be properly informed on the matter.)

Looking forward to stimulating debate

Love and Peace
Jim

jim wrote: Does anyone have any really rational , backed by evidence, counter argument to the bio industry claims that this is necessary to feed increased populations?

Not me. I'll listen to that tonight - am looking forward to it; I think the series has been very good. (Missed the first one, unfortunately.)

I understand the need for the essential amino acids that only come from meat, but to have "meat" which is synthesised vitamins, protiens and minerals doesn't sound in the least bit appetising. While it may be chemically similar - just how close is it to the real thing. Also with the higher rate of allergies since more chemicals have been used for everything does this really sound like a viable option? It makes Frankenstein sound positively sensible!

it sounds gross,twitching? wont be on my plate,probally causes itching scratching and eventually turn us into something from v(old sci fi programme) ,it brings to mind the machine they put humans into to tenderise them for eating,and if we eat lots of it will we evolve without teeth?pigs without legs/or is that what it really is ,i suppose i should hear it to make an educated opinion,but i shall remain ignorant and eat only what God has made without it tampered with (to my knowledge)

Milims wrote:...I understand the need for the essential amino acids that only come from meat...

I've been doing without these "essentials" since 1991 and if you saw me you wouldn't be worried about me fading away any time soon.

QuizMaster wrote:

Milims wrote:...I understand the need for the essential amino acids that only come from meat...

I've been doing without these "essentials" since 1991 and if you saw me you wouldn't be worried about me fading away any time soon.

I don't want to be mean or rude to anyone or cause any offence, and I'm certainly not advocating that we all rush out a chew on the nearest cow, but our bodies are designed to include meat in our diets to some extent - hence essential amino acids - and the need for a balanced diet. Being well nourished isn't about the size of our bodies it's about how balanced our diet is. I've seen for my self the effects of an unbalanced diet - a large man in hospital suffering from malnutrition isn't a pleasant sight.
That said, manufacturing "meat" in a lab is really creepy - it smacks of HG Wells and the like. It's not meat, it's constructed protien and who's to say they won't start constructing human protiens for us to eat, sometime in the future - after all, when it comes down to it, we are animals too.

I'm not malnourished.
I had a blood test a few years ago, as part of a regular check-up. I saw the full results, reading down the list every nutrient was within the normal limits, with the single exception of B12. So I started increasing my B12. How? Cornflakes.

I'm glad to hear it! I wasn't being specific, I was simply stating my opinion, an opinion based on researched and learned information and personal experience - but it is just what it says on the tin - my opinion. The few total vegetarians I've encountered in life have all been told by their doctors to eat meat on occasion as they were lacking in essetial amino acids and it was having an adverse effect on their health. This is my experience - but I haven't met everyone in the world so my experience is limited. I'm truly glad that vegtarianism works well for you and in view of the inital posting, it could well be the way forward for mankind. Looks like you have a head start on the rest of us!

jim wrote:
Does anyone have any really rational , backed by evidence, counter argument

Hi Jim

There are such a lot of rational, evidenced arguments for some really horrible practices in the world, that I nowadays doubt the value of such things.

First off - egg and dairy products are similar in amino acid structure to meat and I've been a strict vegetarian for around 30 years and the only thing I suffer from is rude health. Aside from the occasional self-induced hangover I've never been ill (seriously, no lergies whatsoever).

Lack of amino acids shouldn't be a problem for vegans who eat a varied diet either. Although plants might not all contain the necessary eight amino acids, a varied vegan diet means a mixture of proteins are consumed, so the amino acids in one protein compensates for the deficiencies of another.

Back to the original question - I don't have any religious objections to cloning, which is the usual one, along with ethics, but I do have problems with any processed foods. Naturally grown and raised foods have served mankind well and the arrival of processed products is, IMHO, at the route of many of our modern killer diseases.

We've been fed the same arguments by the GM industry but, for me, they fall down when it comes to flavour comparisons and that's before you get into the short-term - not properly tested, how's it going to effect the environment minefield.

Will people eat it? Well people eat this stuff Like GM, in-vitro meat is being seriously pushed by governments staffed with people with biotech backgrounds. Vested interests? How dare I be so cynical and unscientific.

Yes. It won't feed the world. The reason: EROEI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EROEI)

...but I wouldn't get in the way of some rich dumbass if they wanted to eat it.

hmm... I am not so sure. I heard the programme this morning and whilst the growing of muscle tissue is genetic modification, it hasn't got the same side effects that I am against when we talk about crop GM - ie, once GM is out there, there is no going back because of cross pollination etc and we are messing with a huge eco-system that has taken millions of years to evolve.

I am undecided on the meat issue though, would it not be better than the way that cheap meat is treated now? I would rather McDs meat came from lab meat than poor suffering cattle, or caged hens, etc. (that's not to say that I would eat it )

Imagine, we could all have a growing chunk of chicken breast meat in our kitchens, just cut a slice off when you want some...

There is no vegetable that provides all the amino acids we need, but have a 5 bean chilli and your sorted.
As for the meat, well, in theory it should be fine, its not that different from real life, the cells that make up a steak are "fed" by a chemical mix that is created by chemical reactions in the stomach(s).
This a slightly more hi tech version.
There are problems, replicative fade for example but, in theory, its fine.

Would I eat?
I'll let the rest of the world try it for the first decade.

Milims
Wth an attitude like that you'll never Grok
:p

Milims
Wth an attitude like that you'll never Grok
:p

???? What's Grok?

Theres a Book by Heinlein called stranger in a strange land, on the first mission to mars a baby was conceived and born, every died and he was raised by martians. There word for "understand" was "Grok".
They understood each other, by eating the dead.
So, to "grok" someone, you had to eat them.
Something like that anyway.

Twas a bit of a joke because you mentioned people food.