Mandatory jabs!

Politics, news, current affairs and anything else that you think should be here goes here.
Martin
A selfsufficientish Regular
A selfsufficientish Regular
Posts: 2029
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 8:50 am
Location: Nr Heathfield, East Sussex
Contact:

Post: # 102621Post Martin »

anyone who agrees with compulsion is agreeing to a totalitarian state, which generations of our forefathers fought world wars to avoid! :roll:
The thought that "government knows best" is frankly petrifying - on present evidence government couldn't organise the proverbial "p*ss up in a brewery", and decisions are far more often made on the basis of cronyism and grubby associations with lobbyists (did I say "backhanders"?) than on evidence or common sense :shock:
http://solarwind.org.uk - a small company in Sussex sourcing, supplying, and fitting alternative energy products.
Amateurs encouraged - very keen prices and friendly helpful service!

eccentric_emma
A selfsufficientish Regular
A selfsufficientish Regular
Posts: 752
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:09 pm
Location: Central Portugal

Post: # 102649Post eccentric_emma »

I agree with Martin. And lately I've only just begun to realise exactly how much lobbyists affect us - and I'm shocked that there isn't regulation or even laws against professional lobbyists.

On the vaccination issue. I just can't decide. I had MMR and TB jabs but nothing else (as when I was due to have them I was on a hormone treatment and they didn't want to risk mixing vaccinations with the relatively new drug I was taking) so now I'm having to decide whether to have my polio, diphtheria vaccines etc etc. I'm very very confused!

I have heard about people having homeopathic vaccinations but haven't really looked any further into it. Does anybody else know about these and what are your thoughts?
Off grid retreats, rustic cottages, yoga holidays and more in the midst of nature in Central Portugal

http://www.pureportugalholidays.com

Martin
A selfsufficientish Regular
A selfsufficientish Regular
Posts: 2029
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 8:50 am
Location: Nr Heathfield, East Sussex
Contact:

Post: # 102654Post Martin »

Homoeopathic vaccinations? - they exist, I have heard they work........... :wink:
If it's of any help, if you're already adult, and if you're in doubt..........I've NEVER been vaccinated for anything except tetanus, and I'm still here - personally, I'd leave them out if you have any doubt at all, or go for the homoeopathic ones! :dave:
http://solarwind.org.uk - a small company in Sussex sourcing, supplying, and fitting alternative energy products.
Amateurs encouraged - very keen prices and friendly helpful service!

User avatar
Millymollymandy
A selfsufficientish Regular
A selfsufficientish Regular
Posts: 17637
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 6:09 am
Location: Brittany, France

Post: # 102655Post Millymollymandy »

What is diptheria? Isn't it one we had as a baby? Come to think of it, what jabs would I have been likely to have had as a baby (born 1961).

The only ones I remember were TB aged 5 with a blunt needle shared by everybody at my school, into a vein in the inside of the wrist and I still have the scar to show for it, smallpox and then when I moved to England I had rubella aged 12 and would have had TB again aged 12 if I hadn't already had it.

Over the years when I have travelled I have had polio, cholera, typhoid, Hepatitis A and tetanus.

The only vac certificate I have from when I was a baby in Fiji is smallpox (I think).

MKG
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 5139
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:15 pm
Location: North Notts.

Post: # 102657Post MKG »

Vaccination is, almost by definition, homeopathic - so I wouldn't trust any homeopath who was claiming to have a "homeopathic" vaccine. I understand your confusion - when my daughters were titchy, I agonised about vaccinations on the grounds that a positive decision by me could possibly have devastating effects on them (and, believe me, it's a totally different argument depending upon whether it's intellectual or you have children). In the end, I decided that I wasn't being given enough information and so couldn't possibly decide in favour of vaccination (it was a chicken-out, I can see now), and said daughters are now away in the world, healthy and disease-free. I count myself lucky, and would now argue that vaccination for its own sake is probably counter-productive. But then my kids are all adults now.

QuakerBear
A selfsufficientish Regular
A selfsufficientish Regular
Posts: 582
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:24 pm
Location: Surrey

Post: # 102663Post QuakerBear »

Well said Riff-Raff.
QuakerBear

QuakerBear
A selfsufficientish Regular
A selfsufficientish Regular
Posts: 582
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:24 pm
Location: Surrey

Post: # 102665Post QuakerBear »

eccentric_emma wrote: I have heard about people having homeopathic vaccinations but haven't really looked any further into it. Does anybody else know about these and what are your thoughts?
Please don't, homeopathy does not work and to choose it over conventional medicine is very dangerous. There is evidence against it working, nothing in favour of it and I have to say again, anecdote is not evidence.
QuakerBear

ina
A selfsufficientish Regular
A selfsufficientish Regular
Posts: 8241
Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 9:16 pm
Location: Kincardineshire, Scotland

Post: # 102669Post ina »

QuakerBear wrote:Please don't, homeopathy does not work and to choose it over conventional medicine is very dangerous. There is evidence against it working, nothing in favour of it and I have to say again, anecdote is not evidence.
Strange then that it does work so well, particularly for small children and animals, where the placebo effect can be discounted...

I think if you do look at the literature, there's just as much evidence for it working as against it working. Nobody has ever said it works for everything. Of course, if you use it in cases where everybody knows it wouldn't work (say, you need an operation after an accident) - well, it's easy to say then there's evidence it doesn't work.

And vaccination is not anything like homeopathy at all: yes, it uses small doses, but generally of whatever causes the disease. Homeopathy is more likely to use something (even smaller doses) of whatever causes the symptoms.
Ina
I'm a size 10, really; I wear a 20 for comfort. (Gina Yashere)

Martin
A selfsufficientish Regular
A selfsufficientish Regular
Posts: 2029
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 8:50 am
Location: Nr Heathfield, East Sussex
Contact:

Post: # 102674Post Martin »

I won't get into an argument about it, but I have used homoeopathy personally, on family members, and most importantly farm animals (can't tell me that's psychosomatic!), and have found it both safe and effective.
A good friend who is a fully-qualified conventional vet who "converted" to homoeopathy "works wonders", so I'm sorry, I get very cross with people who dismiss it with a wave of the hand with no experience whatsoever! :wink:
Homoeopathy, like most non-allopathic therapies recognises that people differ, and often need totally different treatments for what may appear to the uninitiated as "the same thing".........this means that if you take 10 random patients with "one ailment" and treat them with one remedy, it is highly unlikely that they will show a statistical improvement (the remedy will be the right one for 2 people, they will get better, it will be the wrong remedy for the other 8....) :dave:
There is a strong movement afoot by the drug companies to rubbish homoeopathy and other therapies, people have voted with their feet, and the drug companies resent their loss of profits.........
Believe me, having lived through the horrors of the polio vaccines of the 50's, vaccines are VERY far from homoeopathic and have resulted in some horrific injuries, and many deaths........
I too have agonised over the right way - we decided against vaccination for my daughter, until she was of an age that she could decide for herself - at the age of 16, she decided she needed tetanus to work with horses - thankfully, we took the right decision for her and us - it is a personal thing, which every sane parent agonises over - we decided against because of a strong family history of chronically bad reactions to vaccinations.
As you can gather, I have strong beliefs on the subject, but would not dream of trying to influence anyone else, but would just suggest that they take nothing as "gospel" from ANY school of therapy, but look at ALL the evidence, and choose accordingly! :wink:
http://solarwind.org.uk - a small company in Sussex sourcing, supplying, and fitting alternative energy products.
Amateurs encouraged - very keen prices and friendly helpful service!

QuakerBear
A selfsufficientish Regular
A selfsufficientish Regular
Posts: 582
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:24 pm
Location: Surrey

Post: # 102677Post QuakerBear »

If it works I will gladly retract my statement issue a full appology and anyting else you wish (within reason :wink: ). So please post here links to public access articles in high impact journals, which have undergone peer review, which have re-produceable results, which detail experiments conducted under stringent research conditions and which are accepted by the medical/scientific community.

I'm really sorry if I sound like I'm getting at you, I don't want to do that, but homeopathy and the current trend towards anti-science is bad, nay dangerous, to individuals and society at large.

I trust the governement and big companies about as far as I can chuck them but we mustn't let that distrust turn us away from good science.
QuakerBear

Martin
A selfsufficientish Regular
A selfsufficientish Regular
Posts: 2029
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 8:50 am
Location: Nr Heathfield, East Sussex
Contact:

Post: # 102682Post Martin »

I did say I won't get into an argument over it (been there, got the t-shirt!) - I did give a very simplified version of why "conventional test methods" tend not to work on non allopathic medicines (allopathy assumes we're "all the same")..........in the meantime, also contemplate the BILLIONS of dollars spent annually by Big Pharma on selling it's often toxic wares, hushing up the mistakes (which are many), and rubbishing the opposition - despite that, people are "voting with their feet" in their millions, and using the alternatives........ :wink:
I don't believe that homoepathy is in any way connected with religion, EXCEPT that I accept your right to hold your religious beliefs (which probably wouldn't stand up to scientific "reason"), it is similarly wrong to deny people's right to their belief in what constitutes safe medicine (even if they conflict with "orthodoxy") :wink:
http://solarwind.org.uk - a small company in Sussex sourcing, supplying, and fitting alternative energy products.
Amateurs encouraged - very keen prices and friendly helpful service!

MKG
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 5139
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:15 pm
Location: North Notts.

Post: # 102683Post MKG »

Woah - wave of pressure there - hold your breath for a moment, QB. I HAVE used a homeopath who knew me very well, and ONE of his remedies worked on me. Fine. He also said to me (after years of training, I have to say) that he wouldn't dream of pretending to be able to treat serious illnesses. That was a homeopath speaking.

There is NO evidence (produce it if you will), other than anecdotal (like mine) for the efficacy of homeopathy. NONE, NONE, NONE. Believe in it if you want - that's fine by me and, as I've said, I've had a homeopathic cure - but please don't announce to the world how wonderful it is in the complete absence of reproducible results.

I would love it if homeopathy was proved to be what it claims (and I have certain leanings in that direction). But I'm afraid that I find it difficult to defend a groundless sweep in support of something which may yet prove to be a fairy story.

End of rant.

Re-rant - Oh, for goodness sake, vaccines are the very definition of homeopathic. To go over very old ground homeo = same. Treatment by giving you something which in large active doses would give you the very disease you are complaining of. Please let's not get into a re-invention of what the term means.
Last edited by MKG on Tue May 13, 2008 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Martin
A selfsufficientish Regular
A selfsufficientish Regular
Posts: 2029
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 8:50 am
Location: Nr Heathfield, East Sussex
Contact:

Post: # 102685Post Martin »

Farmers are hard-headed pragmatists who care greatly about the "bottom line" (is it cost effective?) - many very conventional farmers now rely on homoepathy as being safe, effective and cheap (and would reach for their 12 bore if you suggested they were airy fairy 'ippies) :mrgreen:
http://solarwind.org.uk - a small company in Sussex sourcing, supplying, and fitting alternative energy products.
Amateurs encouraged - very keen prices and friendly helpful service!

MKG
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 5139
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:15 pm
Location: North Notts.

Post: # 102686Post MKG »

I know a farmer or two - I'm surrounded by them. I'll ask 'em and see what they think. And report back.

Martin
A selfsufficientish Regular
A selfsufficientish Regular
Posts: 2029
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 8:50 am
Location: Nr Heathfield, East Sussex
Contact:

Post: # 102690Post Martin »

vaccination usually = dead disease cells - neat, or with some nice toxic mercuric preservative to help it along
homoeopathic dilution - 6x= one cc diluted in 100 ml, then one cc of that diluted in 100ml, and so on, 6 times..........(and that's a low potency (dilution), often they can be many millions of times dilute.... :wink:
ps, every homoeopath who I've asked about "how" it works has been honest, grinned and said something along the lines of "I don't bloody know, but by golly it works!" :mrgreen:
http://solarwind.org.uk - a small company in Sussex sourcing, supplying, and fitting alternative energy products.
Amateurs encouraged - very keen prices and friendly helpful service!

Post Reply